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Thread: "Koi-Kichi" Filter

  1. #211
    Daihonmei
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    Good, I think you are doing the right thing in going concrete- this assumes you are going to stay in the house for a good period so as to justify the extra cost. It is a shocking thing when a prospect says " I will buy your house IF and When you fill in the hole in the yard"! Just keep that in mind. But if you plan on this place being your home for the forseeable future- go for it!

    If "reflections" is doing the work, you need no more advise as to the common mistakes pool builders do when contracted to do a koi pond.

    And I'm sure we will NOT see a repeat of what happened once when Peter gave a referral and sent another 'representative'' to a customer on the continent. The gentleman was quite upset when his wife was ( lets use satisfied then) by the rep! But that's another time and just one of stories we used to chuckle about in ye olde Nomoles. JR

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post
    Good, I think you are doing the right thing in going concrete- this assumes you are going to stay in the house for a good period so as to justify the extra cost. It is a shocking when a prospect says " I will buy your house IF and When you fill in the wholw in the yard"! Just keep that in mind. But if you plan on this place being your home for the forseeable future- go for it!

    If "reflections" is doing the work, you need no more advise as to the common mistakes pool builders do when contracted to do a koi pond.

    And I'm sure we will NOT see a repeat of what happened once when Peter gave a referral and sent another 'representative'' to a customer on the continent. The gentleman was quite upset when his wife was deflowered by the rep! But that's another time and just one of stories we used to chuckle about in ye olde Nomones. JR
    I'm happy that fate has decided that I go for concrete. But I'm not doing it in function of my house. I'll do anything necessary to keep my Koi in the best conditions possible. But you're right about the "no more mistakes" part.

    Hey, how does a married lady get "deflowered"? Unless her husband is (was) an exceptionnally lazy individual? In which case this last got only
    what he deserved!

  3. #213
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bighatbulls View Post
    GPH , ok...

    10X12X6 = 720 then we times this buy 7.48 (right?) and this should give me my estimated gallonage the number I got is 5385.6

    I think we need to talk fish here. My current fish load is about 73 inches (I am not sure if I am using the right terminology) However this number is bound to change. 7 of the koi are tosai, 2 are nisai, the other two are about 11 and 13 inches. Its possible that not all of these fish will be in the new pond, but lets just say they will.

    What other information do we need to determine the gph?
    I don't think you need to talk about fish here.
    You build the filter for the size of the pond, not the current fish load and size.
    The fish load will "grow" in the larger pond. A 7 inch fish may outgrow a 13 inch fish in 2 - 3 years, and if you are like most Koi hobbyist, there will be some new additions.
    BTW: Fish load is measured in pounds, not inches. 12 one inch fish do not equal one 12" fish.

    The gph is needed for pump selection which will probably be around 3200 - 3800 gph minimum.

    You mentioned having a separate pump for a skimmer and UV. I own and have used UVs. It is my opinion that UVs are a bandaid for under filtration.

    My suggestion for a separate skimmer pump system would be use a PondMaster pump (you like) to pump pond water from the skimmer to a shower filter.

  4. #214
    Jumbo bighatbulls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    I don't think you need to talk about fish here.
    You build the filter for the size of the pond, not the current fish load and size.
    The fish load will "grow" in the larger pond. A 7 inch fish may outgrow a 13 inch fish in 2 - 3 years, and if you are like most Koi hobbyist, there will be some new additions.
    BTW: Fish load is measured in pounds, not inches. 12 one inch fish do not equal one 12" fish.

    The gph is needed for pump selection which will probably be around 3200 - 3800 gph minimum.

    You mentioned having a separate pump for a skimmer and UV. I own and have used UVs. It is my opinion that UVs are a bandaid for under filtration.

    My suggestion for a separate skimmer pump system would be use a PondMaster pump (you like) to pump pond water from the skimmer to a shower filter.
    Thanks for helping me sort that bit out, I am not sure where I got the idea to add up the total inches of all my fish.

    What is the difference between horsepower and gph? Will I need to get a seperate leaf catcher or debris catcher for the pump?

    I see UV as a way to manage algae. It took care of the murk in my QT pond, but not the fine particulate. Hence the cheap as dirt fine catcher.

    Ok besides an ERIC, what other filters are out there that would be apropriate for this application? Would I need to install a settling pond? I know the first chamber of the ERIC acts as the settling pond, so no need for one there. My goal is to have "gin" water or "polished" water. Is this possible without the use of an "Adachi" style gravel filter?

    Ric you where on the money, Vukavich's filters are all "Adachi," and he doesn't use UV.
    Amanda Bulls-Stephens
    Creator of "The Tail End"
    Central California Koi Society

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    I don't think you need to talk about fish here.
    You build the filter for the size of the pond, not the current fish load and size.
    Hi Ric,

    I am not so sure about that point. I completely agree with you on planning ahead for the maximal (adult) anticipated size of the fish (and the use of fish mass as opposed to fish length for calculation of load), but wouldn't a heavily-stocked pond require more biofiltration than a lightly-stocked one?

    Paul

  6. #216
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    I think this idea of 'trapping/straining out' organics as opposed to MANAGING organics is one of those EPIPHANY moments (the sudden realization or comprehension of the essence or meaning of something ) in koi keeping.
    So many of these working ideas of organic management do indeed polish the water but also build to a myrid of problems after the fact.

    Maybe the easiest to understand is the foam cartridge. It does an EXCEPTIONAL job of polishing the water --- for about a week. Then it is a nightmare.
    And there is a pecking order of physical filtration from this point on -- until we get to 'acceptable' techniques but with minor pains in terms of maintenance.
    But the real truth-- the epiphany moment comes when one realizes that you need to manage the problem in a more fundamental way and this includes, stocking, feeding technique, pond shape and drain design, good sump, rountine water change and MINIMAL physical barrier.

    Not to use me, "Know Nothing" as any kind of poster child, but I have relatively little physical restriction for mechanical filtering. Instead I use FF, water change and two different system designs to gain the best of all worlds. A simple sump with a few baffles and the rotating screen are all that is needed and my water looks pretty good if I do say so myself? I have four GCs to date, one AKCA picture champ, the first Koi America GC, two reserve GC, one best male, one Kukugyo and a best of size in the All Japan, one Rinko cover fish and a few MAKC cover fish. Throw in a few best of size and numerous 1sts and I'd say the pond does an OK job of not ruining anything at least?!
    Seriously all these systems work- the home made being in my opinion, the best money can't buy! But if you have to buy a store bought then most are fine.
    I should note that one of the best looking ( and largest ) ponds in America right now runs on an Adachi gravel design. And the highest end dealer on the East Coast of the USA runs on a granite bed system designed by Narita based on his own and customer's working systems.
    I warn you, they ARE labor intense and always a concern about unwanted organic loving bacteria. But they work quite well otherwise... JR

  7. #217
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paultergeist View Post
    Hi Ric,

    I am not so sure about that point. I completely agree with you on planning ahead for the maximal (adult) anticipated size of the fish (and the use of fish mass as opposed to fish length for calculation of load), but wouldn't a heavily-stocked pond require more biofiltration than a lightly-stocked one?

    Paul
    Yes.

    It is my opinion to plan for the Max.

    I should admit, that it has been my experience, that it does not hurt to "over filter" a Koi pond.

  8. #218
    Daihonmei
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    No such thing as overfiltering as there is no such as OVER filtering-- kinda like being over dead or over pregnant! Either the job is done or it isn't and when it's done , it's done. JR

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasPR View Post

    The Brits, after that famous trip lead by Roland Seal, to the --- are you ready for this--- wait for it----- ZNA member ponds in Tokyo saw the first western 'light bulbs' go on!

    And then the 'next' famous trip with a Japanese guide to Yamakoshi! ( Nigel Caddock, Ian Stwardson, Allan Rogers, Bernard Channing, Peter Waddington and a host of others) - and the idea of a chamber system was the classic 'cat' out of the 'bag' and pime for the pick'n.

    But before anyone in France get's upset, it will all work! Just hardly can it be called 'cutting edge'. --

    Good heavens you are admitting it will work now (is that your safety net for when the glowing reports come back?) - whatever next?

    Know Nothing James
    Yes, you certainly do come over as knowing nothing to me.

    I deal in facts, facts that can be proven - you deal in thoughts and dreams.

    First BKKS-sponsored trip to Japan - one person Roland Seal.

    Second (non-sponsored BKKS trip) in 1977.

    Third (non-sponsored BKKS trip) in 1979.

    Fourth (Non-sponsored BKKS trip organised and led by Peter Waddington at the request of the BKKS) MANY years later in 1987 when the names you mentioned visited - the others were Mike Wint; Greg Peck; Greg Jackson; Mary Riddoch; Rachel Gosling; Phil Edwards & Paul Jarrett.

    By the way, Bernard Channing did NOT go on that trip.

    I took them to Isawa; Nagoya; Hiroshima; Tokyo and Niigata we stayed in Nagaoka at the Grand Hotel - as usual.

    Yes it was their very first visit but by then I knew all the areas like the back of my hand - why do you think the BKKS asked me!

    Now we can all see you are rattled but you do leave yourself wide open don't you?

    The readers here need ACCURACY, not your poor memory.

    I'm sure you will apologise to all for the wild misinformation - after all, it is the right thing to do isn't it?

    My name is Peter Waddington.

  10. #220
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Hello Amanada . . .

    Check out the pond volume calculator at Eastern Nishikigoi:

    http://enkoi.com/Pond-Volume-Calculator.html

    Best wishes,

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