Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 30 of 32 FirstFirst ... 202829303132 LastLast
Results 291 to 300 of 317

Thread: "Koi-Kichi" Filter

  1. #291
    Oyagoi woodyaht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Stockton,Ca.
    Posts
    1,471
    Suzy,

    Larry can very much hold his own with the experts. He's one of the good people!

    My observations about the rest of this............

    I have to agree with what Larry and Grant said earlier on. My respect is very little if at all after all these posts/threads. I think "used car salesman" was brought up? Very fitting. Not a straight answer on here from the business man. The questions asked were simple, yet nothing short of a simple answer was ever given. Dodge ball comes to mind.

    Jim North said it very well, and I had to laugh at: "I wouldn't know flemming" comment. Sures seems odd that he's the front man posting for Waddy here and on the other forum.

    Sad to see someone that many considered a icon be so wishy washy

    It is nice to see the same kinds of questions being asked elsewhere, and still no straight answers.
    “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed” Adolf Hitler


    Chris~

  2. #292
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    I see that the free ads for the plastic bins have been shut down.


    I just wanted to do a public service announcement on one of those threads and then move on---

    The large front driveway water feature was a lovely sight. Not really my taste but still I can appreciate it for what it is and how it fits that setting and time period. Reminiscent of the old lily pond goldfish design of Victorian era.

    And in that regard, I think the error I see in design would work well. That is the very long runs of piping from water feature to filters would work well for goldfish and plants. But koi are a different matter! Koi are large and dirty! And as such produce tremendous amounts of waste and fish slime- materials that, when in the presents of biofilm and bacteria create a very sticky slurry that tends to gather over time. This is one reason for instance why we don’t use 6 inch pipes from drains—where that has been done we have created a natural settlement chamber within the run if pipe. This same effect can be cause by TOO long a run in the piping- piping of even smaller diameter where one would think the movement would be brisk.
    The legend in his own mind tells us that you need to buy a separate system for each drain as the ‘pull’ would be different on the different lengths of piping if they were to lead to one sump. Yet IAL does not seem to grasp that the length of pipe places a resistance on water traveling thru it. This cases the inside of the piping to become a collecting tube.

    I think this was best illustrated by one of the shakers and movers in the hobby, Nigel Caddock, when he had installed a large ‘T’ connection right before his primary vortex.
    As proof of the collecting abilities of a long, albeit properly sized diameter piping, the vortex was isolated with gate values and flushed until the vortex was drained and clean. And then reversing the procedure, new pond water was allowed to enter and it was clear to the human eye. But then, isolating the vortex from the main drain once again, the ‘T’ was opened. This T was open to a sump pit below and acted as a raw open spigot to waste. The water pouring out could be observed as ‘chocolate milk’ like water exiting the run of drain piping due to the rapid and powerful down pull of gravity. Proving, in the process, that long runs tend to be settlement chambers by one of two ways—to large a pipe that causes water to slow and settle out allowing for a cement like slurry to form or- two) a very long run of pipe on gravity flow that ,due to resistance along the pipe, has the same effect.
    A word to wise--- if you are going to make you filters truly remote to the pond, think about the lines that run that distance and install a clean out or two along the way. JR


  3. #293
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    69
    May I say that reading this thread has got me off my lazy posterior and caused me to sign on the dotted line to become a participating member. How refreshing it has been to view a topic being thrashed out, for the most part in an adult level without the heavy handed moderation and politically correct atmosphere that one encounters in other venues. Just grown ups cutting through the BS, pulling off the veil of hype that surrounds much in this business/hobby for a clearer view of things.

    Thank You

  4. #294
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    The subject of turnover rate-- I think there is a fundamental error in what this means? And I think " the legend in his own mind' has added to this confusion with the idea of dwell time? Please bear with me while I briefly cover some history---

    Once upon a time in England, it was suggested that water needed to stay IN the bioreactor section of a filter in order to be 'doubly sure' that all the ammonia was 'wasted or rinsed' out of the passing water. ( I even once upon a time look at ammonia that way). But ammonia is a dissolved substance that builds in concentration and not a physical unit.

    It seems that 'Legend' has stayed stuck in the passed ? The purpose and reason for a 'turn over rate' has nothing to do with dwell time ( which is a settlement consideration). Turn over rate is that rate at which we deliver pond water so as to reduce ambient ammonia levels within the system ( concentrations = mg/l ) to 0 mg/l or 'undetectable'. This is a balancing act then between production ( by the fish) and removal ( by the biofilm) and it starts with the pond walls and pumping and comes on more intensely as water passes thru the bay that houses huge numbers of nitrifying bacterial cells. The reason the proper term is 'Bio-reactor' and not just 'filter' is that the ammonia laden water reacts with nitrfying cells and is oxidized - a term for an instantaneously chemcial reaction taking place. So this is the more accurate or best descriptive for what is occuring.

    The fundamental concept of nitrification has never changed in the 100 years of aquarium and water gardening keeping. But the understanding of the details of biofiltration has exploded. And in that 'explosion' certain old facts are destroyed in order to make way for the new. JR

  5. #295
    Fry
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    7
    I am confounded to beat the band with suzy's unadulterated committment and loyalty to the system being discussed here. I normally reserve responses, one way or another to something, till I have had first hand experience. I am hopeful she is as steadfast after the fact.

    Now to make my point. With all the discussion and posts, I do not recall in any one instance of a third party telling their story about their eric units a
    nd their experience. If I am wrong, and missed the story,
    please correct me.

  6. #296
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Davenport, Oklahoma
    Posts
    6,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Retired View Post
    I am confounded to beat the band with suzy's unadulterated committment and loyalty to the system being discussed here. I normally reserve responses, one way or another to something, till I have had first hand experience. I am hopeful she is as steadfast after the fact.

    Now to make my point. With all the discussion and posts, I do not recall in any one instance of a third party telling their story about their eric units a
    nd their experience. If I am wrong, and missed the story,
    please correct me.
    Someday Suzy will have her pond built, her eric installed and running, and fish living therein. Then we will FINALLY get to hear some firsthand information on how it operates from one who actually owns one.

    Until then we are stuck with hearing "testimonials" from Nun's who have enjoyed watching **** and are now quite excited about how great sex would be IF they ever broke their vows

    (Another comparison about teenage boys and premature EJ came to mind, but I decided against it...
    sort of)

  7. #297
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    99
    There are posts on other forums regarding ERIC's, just not this one, I don't really have to wonder why.

    However, when I finally get my pond built, and actually decide on how I am finishing it, and my 'plastic bins' arrive in the next couple of days, I will also keep you updated.

    But then again, is there much point

    JasPR,

    Don't you think for a second if Peter could've placed those filters next the pond he would have, or do you think he actually wanted to place that far away?

    The pumps on that pond are not your average pond pumps.

    It's all been taken care of, so don't worry.

    Will wait for the usual responses back, anyone fancy a cup of tea and a scone?

  8. #298
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    Hey Andy,

    Yes lets begin---- the size of the motor is not the issue mate. I did suggest that inline meters be installed as THEY would give the rate of delivery and not the motor's graph which is a defined application only. The bends and length have the effect of reducing the deliver but that is on the RETURN side. I'm talking about the incoming side which is gravity fed, yes? I can tell you what might happen and you can advise the owner if and when the issue arises-- If the pumps are too big and the gravity side from the drains is fixed, then the level in the plastic bins will remain the same as the pond level. IF the motors are too large however, the gravity side, being limited, will starve the bins and the water level will drop. Once the long drain runs begin to accumulate slurry, their ability to deliver via gravity will slowly be reduced ( I have seem piping that was 1/3 filled with this slurry) and the bins ( especially the first bin) will be lower and lower. At that point all one can do is install a bypass at the motors to return a portion of the return water back into the first plastic bay. Understand the problem?

    As you point out, the installers have used a powerful motor to return the water against the resistance of long multiple piping.
    now I keeping hearing how professional these installers are-- and I have to say they build a nice looking water feature for sure. But if they have not put in meters and have not somehow done something to counter the long run to a gravity fed filter then they are going to create a problem down the road and once that line is buried its not practical to repair it later on. Andy, I did not bring this up as some theoretical , both the 'Legend' and I have seen this go bad in other systems. I'm stunned that the Legend who is obsessed with smooth sides in bay filter walls, detritus in the system etc is willing to over look this obvious organic collector known as LONG gravity runs ( without a midway clean out) JR

  9. #299
    Jumbo
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SJ, CA
    Posts
    625
    Quote Originally Posted by waddy View Post
    Hi Ric, no it doesn't - air travels directly vertically by pure gravity, the water flow entering from left or right of the box travels to the exit left or right of the box and tracks accordingly.
    If the box is a perfect cube and the water enters from the bottom left AND the exit is the top right, water will track at a 45 degree angle irrespective of how much aeration is applied.
    Just imagine a square container and the pump is sucking water from the centre of one side. Is it honestly possible that the pump is sucking water from the other side of the square??
    If coverage is to be perfect in order to supply all surfaces it has to suck water from the entire surface as the water rises.
    Frankly, this is impossible!
    My name is Peter Waddington.
    WTF ? I am laughing to death. Originally, I thought people may have preformed opinions that is not that friendly to Waddy. Not so now. Water traveling 45% from bottom left to top right. You truely are mentally disturbed.

    stan

  10. #300
    Daihonmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,642
    Stan, he's loaded with that kinda 'home spun' physics! He also told a customer I know that his bent fish ( bought from Waddy of course so there had to be another explanation other than it was bought that way) was bent because the current in his pond was only flowing one way and he needed to rotate the current from clockwise to counter clockwise to 'straighten the fish out'! True! You can't make this stuff up! Upon hearing this, I simply asked " what happens when the fish swims across the pond and back and forth ? What shape will it take on then?"
    Of course, this could be a new variety-- the Gumby koi! JR

Page 30 of 32 FirstFirst ... 202829303132 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. blue crayfish for "filter feeders" in koi pond
    By luke frisbee in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-15-2010, 03:07 PM
  2. Judging Koi: "On The Day" vs "Quality"
    By MikeM in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 07-03-2008, 03:02 AM
  3. Term "Koi Kichi".
    By Redfrick in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 05-23-2007, 01:57 PM
  4. SD koi show "" YOU WRITE THE CAPTION""
    By keokoi in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 02-23-2007, 10:17 PM
  5. What is "Koi-Kichi"?
    By aquitori in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 03-29-2006, 02:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com