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Thread: "Koi-Kichi" Filter

  1. #301
    Sansai
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    Well I have to agree JR. When I saw those long runs on the fountain pond......I wondered just how long it would take to see a difference in the flow. I wanted to post our experience when I saw the pictures, but the thread had been closed.
    A couple of weeks ago, we had to do our annual "mouseing" of the 4in PVC line coming from our bottom drain. It never ceases to amaze us of all the "stuff" that comes through that line! - Even after I regularily full force dump the chamber numerouse times, when I do a water change. And yes, when we had our 3600 gph pump, the 3rd chamber would pump very low - that's how we knew that something was going on there and we needed to do something about it. In order to not have to do the mouseing ritual every 6 months or so, we bought a smaller pump. Not my preferred way to do things at all, as our turnover rate went down. The third chamber doesn't pump down so much with this one, but flow does slow down and we can tell that it's time to drag the ropes out again.
    I often used to think (when we still thought we would be building a new pond), that the filters would be directly in back of the pond. This way the pipe legnths would be the shortest possible. The bottom drain lines would also go over to a settlement chamber that would be down lower than the drain.......no ells for water to have to go up over and that way the stuff wouldn't collect in the line.

  2. #302
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruth Rice View Post
    Well I have to agree JR. When I saw those long runs on the fountain pond......I wondered just how long it would take to see a difference in the flow. I wanted to post our experience when I saw the pictures, but the thread had been closed.
    A couple of weeks ago, we had to do our annual "mouseing" of the 4in PVC line coming from our bottom drain. It never ceases to amaze us of all the "stuff" that comes through that line! - Even after I regularily full force dump the chamber numerouse times, when I do a water change. And yes, when we had our 3600 gph pump, the 3rd chamber would pump very low - that's how we knew that something was going on there and we needed to do something about it. In order to not have to do the mouseing ritual every 6 months or so, we bought a smaller pump. Not my preferred way to do things at all, as our turnover rate went down. The third chamber doesn't pump down so much with this one, but flow does slow down and we can tell that it's time to drag the ropes out again.
    I often used to think (when we still thought we would be building a new pond), that the filters would be directly in back of the pond. This way the pipe legnths would be the shortest possible. The bottom drain lines would also go over to a settlement chamber that would be down lower than the drain.......no ells for water to have to go up over and that way the stuff wouldn't collect in the line.
    How does a mouse get in a 4 inch PVC pipe unless it is connected to a drain and open at the other end?

  3. #303
    Oyagoi woodyaht's Avatar
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    This from another forum where the "Grand Poobah" spoke:


    "Now, most folks post observations from their personal pond/watergarden experiences, some google also & some just read too damn many books."

    What's sad is what's left out of that post............ I've thrown hundreds of thousands of dollars (well into the seven figures), and I still don't know squat. I kill mature fish as well as fry Yet my club is gonna take over

  4. #304
    Daihonmei
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    Good Morning, well I've been up against the anti-intellectual argument before. It's a common populist charge and tactic when the detractor has no response or argument to come back with.
    The Legend wrote this in Koi Kichi 2 in his acknowledgements to those that helped or wrote sections of this book--
    To " James P Reilly, for his contributions to the 'water' aspects section which I ducked out of in 'koi kichi' and needed real assistance with some of the finer aspects included herein. It is useless to copy information from technical books because they do not relate to koi keeping. Instead it has to come directly from a true koi keeper like Jim " - Peter Waddington K2K

    Now Peter and I have had a falling out- something he could have avoided by being a stand up guy. This in no way however should change reality or facts. And to now suggest that JR is all about book reading is to call himself a fraud and a liar. Probably the only thing left that we can both agree on.
    As for understanding filtration and microbiology-- here's a shock- it takes a lot of reading of all subjects related to the process so that a deeper understanding emerges. It also takes the practical experience of 'tending a filter' in many settings and other extensions of the fish keeping hobby to integrate the book knowledge/ science with the hands on experience.
    I have built filters, maintained filters, written about filters, helped others with filters, consulted on filters, and designed filters of all types for some 30 years.
    One of the classic mistakes I saw the Legend make and actually bully the BKKS on was over the subject of Fukurin. He had sold a Sakai fish with a ginrin rip (a classic matsunosuke trait) to a prominent exhibitor and it was contending for a high honor in the National. Peter became enraged when the judges started pointing to the rip as incomplete ginrin and maybe the fish should be classified as ginrin. Now Peter has tantrums regularly, but this one was a royal one-- he ridiculed the judges mercilessly as to what they were looking at! He insisted it was Fukurin and all koi judges were truly blind ! He went on and on about how he had been personally instructed in this wonder by the master himself ‘whilst’ traversing the ancient land of the Japanese sensei yada yada yada. But after we all heard for the ten thousandth time how only he knew because he was ‘Peter San’ to the little Asian people ( yada yada ) since 1978 yada yada yada I was struck by a bolt of lightning ( remember I was a ‘ supporter’ back then) that he was mistaking what Fukurin was and thinking it was the ginrin rip ! He had done no reading of any of the Japanese teachings. He had only been instructed by Sakai ( who speaks no English and Peter speaks only Japanese phrases) so pointing was used to explain Matsunosuke ginrin scale and Fukurin skin to him. When Sakai would point he would show the skin as a whole—and genetically linked to the silky Fukurin laden skin were deposits of guanine ( Peter wouldn’t know what guanine is if it bite him on the leg!) that became embedded in the scale pocket and scale itself ( that’s what ginrin is). But the Fukurin is the skin surrounding the scale that is impregnated with guanine cells , giving it silk skin quality, and not the gin rin scale. Ok, ok a modest mistake for a beginner. But this bully used it to degrade the judges, ruin the show and upset the exhibitor who felt he was mistreated by uneducated judges. And the truth is the blow hard was wrong to begin with. The reason I knew about fukurin? Reading and asking the Japanese advanced ZNA members the right questions. One of them, a student of Dainichi was asked about the subject way back in 1990. The question was translated and the answer was clear. The 'emperor has no clothes' folks. ( I also read that story -- in a book)
    READING scientific text—a radical idea I suppose, but it can come in handy! J JR

  5. #305
    Jumbo
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    I think that is e`nuff, folks

    I think we have e`nuff of this subject. I like to throw in my 2 cents:

    1. Koi keeping is about learning. Everyone has their perferred way of learning.
    2. By any mean, getting 'burned' is still the best way to learn for many
    3. You can't force someone to 'download' your experience into their brain. They need to learn it willingly.
    4. 'Downloading' is suicidal, for both downloader and downloadee. That is more than obvious here.
    5. JR, KoiCop and many have great knowledge and great intent, but they sure did not major in education, and that shows.

    At the end, I am really happy for KoiCop (or someone else), I can use a vacation to France too (san French women poops).

    stan

  6. #306
    Daihonmei
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    Stan I do the best I can with the limitations I have. Can't expect more than that. JR

  7. #307
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    How does a mouse get in a 4 inch PVC pipe unless it is connected to a drain and open at the other end?
    Lol.....sorry about that ricshaw. No I do not mean the furry little creatures, I used the word mouseing as a verb. Where as you may not be familiar with what I wrote, I am all too familiar and that is why I cringed when I saw the pipe layout on that fountain setup. We use an electrical mouse (which is a cylindrically shaped sponge made to blow through electrical conduit for pulling wires) to pull through the pipe to remove buildup. It is a real pain to do this process. I imagine after seeing the pictures of that very long run, that they are going to have serious problems with buildup.

  8. #308
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Ruth, some folks call it a pipeline pig. Watched 'em use a big one to clean out the seawater supply lines for the Monterey Bay Aquarium on TV the other night. Couldn't believe how much crap settled/grew in those huge lines despite the tremendous flow.

    Just shows to go ya.

  9. #309
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Hello JR . . .

    Yup, saw that mention that you rated in the Forward of K2K (it's on p. 21) as a 'then' member of Peter's Team.

    Don't feel too bad: Others on said team have for the most part fared about as well as you have since then, to wit:

    Nigel Caddock
    Jasper Kujiper
    Tim Waddington

    Best wishes,

  10. #310
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    HiYa, Stan . . .

    Long time, no see.

    Larry (PapaBear) is the one that's been invited to visit the south of France, not me. He's such a suckup.

    Best wishes,

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