Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 147
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Would Like Design Help!

  1. #121
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaL View Post
    Thanks Paul and jtp. I won't have time to do much measuring today, a lot of commitments in other places. But I will get to that maybe tomorrow if we don't get that winter storm they are predicting here.
    My pond setup is rectangular on one end and somewhat rounded on the other end. Longest dimensions 23' x 15' x 5'10". Average dimensions about 20 x 13 x 5.5. It is a liner pond w/ a concrete collar dug into red clay. The sides are sloped at what I would guess is 75 degrees. I have measured the volume with the salt method and the bicarb method and got 8800 gallons +/- 75 gallons. I have two 4" Rhino II aerated bottom drains each to its own Cetus sieve to two 60 gallon moving beds. The water is returned to the pond via two Sequence 750 4200SEQ12 pumps.
    The returns are via a ~5 foot high 8 feet wide waterfall and two tpr's. The pond has been running in this configuration for 2 1/2 years. I have 17 koi in this pond ranging in size from a few 15-16 inchers to a few more 19-21 inchers to 5 that range from 22-25". For reference I measured the Kohaku at 23 inches in mid October.
    My first reaction is that two 60 gallon moving beds is not enough filtration for a 8800 gallon pond.



    The planned shower filter will help.
    The question is will it be enough?

  2. #122
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    219
    Whether it is "enough" or not until mid July I had 30 fish in there and water parameters consistently showed pH 8.2- 8.4 ammonia zero nitrite zero nitrates ranging from <8 to 22 depending on when and how large the last water change was. Kh and GH usually in the 80-120 range. Fewer fish now and parameters running about the same. Yes I see the bubbles on the water and am looking at incorporating a foam extractor on the shower discharge; if that is not adequate I will move on up to a more formal foam fractionator.
    My fish are healthy and growing.

  3. #123
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaL View Post
    Whether it is "enough" or not until mid July I had 30 fish in there and water parameters consistently showed pH 8.2- 8.4 ammonia zero nitrite zero nitrates ranging from <8 to 22 depending on when and how large the last water change was. Kh and GH usually in the 80-120 range. Fewer fish now and parameters running about the same. Yes I see the bubbles on the water and am looking at incorporating a foam extractor on the shower discharge; if that is not adequate I will move on up to a more formal foam fractionator.
    My fish are healthy and growing.

    Was the water "clear" where you could see a penny on the bottom or green?

  4. #124
    Oyagoi
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Forreston,IL
    Posts
    1,073
    if i remember a savio skimmer it is curved all the way around.just can not see how a 4 inch bulkhead would fit well.just wonder if this can be part of problem.

    skimmer pad also since not much room for a bulkhead nut on inside of skimmer with that mat in there.

    both should only take a minute just take a ruler with you.

    no sense talking ultra seive or anything until you can get the flow going into barrel as with coming winter this could turn into a next spring project and alot of digging.ultraseive or what ever would be an easy conversion.problem will be where is the flow problem is.
    Paul Korf

    member of:
    Midwest Pond and Koi Society
    Louisville Koi club
    IKONA

  5. #125
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    Was the water "clear" where you could see a penny on the bottom or green?
    Was the water clear enough to see a penny when? When the water temp was 86 in the middle of the summer I had some green. Right now you could probably see a penny, I haven't been throwing money INTO the pond just yet!

    Paul, you will just have to come down here and look at it. The bulkheads fit just fine, they don't leak, and I have put 4 inch plugs in each of them and they fit. I did have to trim the "fins" on the back of the pad holder on the bulkhead side to get the pads to fit in that space. There is a problem with flow somewhere, but I really don't think the skimmers are the problem. Do you know of anyone with the Savio skimmers with the large weir that have had flow problems if the pads and basket were kept clean?

  6. #126
    Oyagoi
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Forreston,IL
    Posts
    1,073
    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaL View Post
    Was the water clear enough to see a penny when? When the water temp was 86 in the middle of the summer I had some green. Right now you could probably see a penny, I haven't been throwing money INTO the pond just yet!

    Paul, you will just have to come down here and look at it. The bulkheads fit just fine, they don't leak, and I have pot 4 inch plugs in each of them and they fit. I did have to trim the "fins" on the back of the pad holder on the bulkhead side to get the pads to fit in that space. There is a problem with flow somewhere, but I really don't think the skimmers are the problem. Do you know of anyone with the Savio skimmers with the large weir that have had flow problems if the pads and basket were kept clean?
    well it was just a simple thought and about as easy as it comes to try.
    so having to trim the fins back means the pad is really close to outlet so instead of trying to get the flow through what is the pad 12 X 18 you are asking it to go through a 4 inch hole.

    so it is not about the large weir or what ever it is between the outlet of the skimmer and the barrel.even the small 8 inch weir would be working with your flow rate esp since over 2 of them.

    i truely feel it is a problem with the pipes and they need to be dug up but this was just a check to see that was as easy as it comes and FREE

    also pics in post 120 do not show pond and filter house in same picture to see the distance involved.that might help more then a fish picture

    was just trying give a few things to check that was easy as you suggested.(no wonder i stay out of pond contruction threads)
    oh well happy digging

  7. #127
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    219
    Quote Originally Posted by pskorf View Post
    well it was just a simple thought and about as easy as it comes to try.
    so having to trim the fins back means the pad is really close to outlet so instead of trying to get the flow through what is the pad 12 X 18 you are asking it to go through a 4 inch hole.

    so it is not about the large weir or what ever it is between the outlet of the skimmer and the barrel.even the small 8 inch weir would be working with your flow rate esp since over 2 of them.

    i truely feel it is a problem with the pipes and they need to be dug up but this was just a check to see that was as easy as it comes and FREE

    also pics in post 120 do not show pond and filter house in same picture to see the distance involved.that might help more then a fish picture

    was just trying give a few things to check that was easy as you suggested.(no wonder i stay out of pond contruction threads)
    oh well happy digging
    Paul, I apologize for the snippy tone of my last post. I am a little frustrated with the discussion about the skimmer though. I have done everything you have suggested at one time or another including taking a ruler with me. If you could see it it would make sense. You must not have one of these skimmers to look at. Check out this page from the manufacturers site: Official Savio® Website - Manufacturer of an advanced line of water gardening & pond building equipment.
    It lists the recommended flow rate thru the skimmer at 5,000-8500gph. And that is with the water having to be pulled through the pad. The water path to the area behind the filter pad has not been altered at all, just the placement of the pump.
    This thing is designed to use a submersible pump placed in the area just in front of the skimmer pad. My skimmer is modified to instead have the water flow out through a 4 inch bulkhead and gravity flow down to the intermediate place (barrel, sieve or whatever) and then be pumped back to the pond. So in my case the questions in my mind are:
    1. What gph is capable of flowing by gravity thru x feet of pipe and y number of fitting in a 3 inch and 4 inch pipe?
    2. How does having this water flow into an open barrel which is then connected to the pump affect this flow?
    3. What is the effect of the size, length, and number of fittings of the pipe between the barrel and the pump on this water flow.

    I know that there is a possibility that there is a problem in the piping somewhere. I have found a possible culprit in an easy to get to place which I will attack first. If I have to dig, so be it, but I would sure like to see calculations and explanations of those questions above.
    I don't have a picture that shows the whole pond with a good picture of the filter house that would allow you to assess distance. You will just have to work on the assumption that my tape measure is accurate and that I know how to use it. In the picture in post 120 you can see the roof and part of the filter house between the waterfall and the cedar tree on the right.
    I do think it is reasonable to discuss the middle(barrel, sieve or whatever) so that I can do this all at one time once pipes are cleared, moved or whatever, so I lose function of my skimmer circuit for the shortest amount of time possible.
    Last edited by GloriaL; 12-12-2010 at 05:25 PM. Reason: spelling, punctuation.

  8. #128
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaL View Post
    Was the water clear enough to see a penny when? When the water temp was 86 in the middle of the summer I had some green. Right now you could probably see a penny, I haven't been throwing money INTO the pond just yet!
    Gloria,

    The topic of this thread is "Would Like Design Help!".

    The picture you posted shows a pond with "green" water.

    The description you posted suggests a large pond with inadequate filtration to me.

    I know that a clear water pond is not necessary a healthy pond, but for me and most Koi pond owners I know, a Koi pond with clear water is a goal and priority.
    Is clear water year around a priority for you?

    I tell people you can have a healthy pond for Koi with green water and you can have a "poison" pond with clear water.

    The trick to getting a healthy pond with clear water (24/7) for Koi, without the use of UV, is to have "over filtration" (biological) that goes beyond what is needed to get safe readings on water quality pond test kits.

    P.S. Buying a $2000. piece of filtration equipment is "throwing money INTO the pond".
    If it achieves your goal then it is not a negative thing.
    :-)

  9. #129
    Oyagoi
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Forreston,IL
    Posts
    1,073
    i have had a savio sitting here what 7=/- years ago so a little familar with it.
    guess i have not went out to look for modified but like you stated is main use is a submersible pump on other side of pad.this way all the water can flow through the pad and can be used for what it is suppose to be keeping pine needles and out and such.
    so to go through the side does seem crazy to me.why would they not go through the bottom and have bulkhead on a flat surface and pulling water from behind pad area.that seems like the logical place maybe i should send an email to a dealer that i know that uses savio and sure he has done a bulkhead sometime or another through it.

    so with bulkhead through side it has to be close to pad(have not seen a picture posted yet of how close pad is to bulkhead)
    but to leave pad in there and having water POSSIBLY trying to go through only a 4inch area(bulkhead size)

    sure you answered my questions about skimmer.there will not be a difference front to of skimmer(if water is not leaving the skimmer very fast).
    if there was a big difference would mean basket full of leaves or something plugging the sides where water flows.
    so no difference means all that area is open so now its an outlet to barrel problem.
    now you say you have 1 pipe maybe with a rise but you have 2 pipes that should be flowing to barrel so has to be a problem with BOTH pipes.

    even pulling out the pad might not make a difference but it would be part of a process of trying to figure out things.

    just makes me wonder why not even attempt it.
    cost?-free
    time?-minute maybe
    easy?-i hope so

    you were looking for something EASY to do

    so if you need me to drive 8 hours to pull out a skimmer pad i can or call your pond builder that messed this up in the first place and more then likely he will charge you.

    kind of like a koi health problem its a process esp over internet or do you take the whole medicine cabinet into the pond.just check out any koi health thread and see how many different ideas you get.Maybe PP'ing the pond will solve the flow problem

    so if i do sound a little snippy probably cause i am amazed that people are offering you free advice and you seem like you want a quick answer.need to go through steps same way a person would do if there in person and was CHARGING you.

    good luck to you and best advice i can give you is call KOI ACRES to come down there and fix the problem.will be alot easier on you and us trying to figure stuff out over interent

  10. #130
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    I am confused again (without going back and reading through 100 posts) is Gloria's pond filtration a DIY or built by some pond builder?
    :-/

    Quote Originally Posted by pskorf View Post
    i have had a savio sitting here what 7=/- years ago so a little familar with it.
    guess i have not went out to look for modified but like you stated is main use is a submersible pump on other side of pad.this way all the water can flow through the pad and can be used for what it is suppose to be keeping pine needles and out and such.
    so to go through the side does seem crazy to me.why would they not go through the bottom and have bulkhead on a flat surface and pulling water from behind pad area.that seems like the logical place maybe i should send an email to a dealer that i know that uses savio and sure he has done a bulkhead sometime or another through it.

    so with bulkhead through side it has to be close to pad(have not seen a picture posted yet of how close pad is to bulkhead)
    but to leave pad in there and having water POSSIBLY trying to go through only a 4inch area(bulkhead size)

    sure you answered my questions about skimmer.there will not be a difference front to of skimmer(if water is not leaving the skimmer very fast).
    if there was a big difference would mean basket full of leaves or something plugging the sides where water flows.
    so no difference means all that area is open so now its an outlet to barrel problem.
    now you say you have 1 pipe maybe with a rise but you have 2 pipes that should be flowing to barrel so has to be a problem with BOTH pipes.

    even pulling out the pad might not make a difference but it would be part of a process of trying to figure out things.

    just makes me wonder why not even attempt it.
    cost?-free
    time?-minute maybe
    easy?-i hope so

    you were looking for something EASY to do

    so if you need me to drive 8 hours to pull out a skimmer pad i can or call your pond builder that messed this up in the first place and more then likely he will charge you.

    kind of like a koi health problem its a process esp over internet or do you take the whole medicine cabinet into the pond.just check out any koi health thread and see how many different ideas you get.Maybe PP'ing the pond will solve the flow problem

    so if i do sound a little snippy probably cause i am amazed that people are offering you free advice and you seem like you want a quick answer.need to go through steps same way a person would do if there in person and was CHARGING you.

    good luck to you and best advice i can give you is call KOI ACRES to come down there and fix the problem.will be alot easier on you and us trying to figure stuff out over interent
    Last edited by ricshaw; 12-12-2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason: correct spelling

Page 13 of 15 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Pond Design
    By jimfish98 in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-25-2011, 09:23 AM
  2. My new pond design
    By eds in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 11-22-2010, 03:53 PM
  3. New pond design
    By Koiboy23 in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-17-2010, 09:22 AM
  4. My own filter design
    By Erns in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-04-2007, 02:46 PM
  5. need help with pond design
    By kresler in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-26-2007, 11:12 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com