Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 147
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Would Like Design Help!

  1. #1
    Sansai
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    219

    Would Like Design Help!

    I am reconfiguring my skimmer circuit to run the flow thru my new shower and would like some help on the redesign. My current setup is as follows:
    8800 gallon pond, 2 large Savio skimmers, one with 3" outflow line, one with 4" outflow line(don't ask me I have no idea how they ended up that way!) The lines travel ~120 feet downhill to the filter house where they wye together into a single 4" line( restricting flow) that enters a 70 gallon barrel thru the bottom ending about halfway up the barrel. The barrel has an outflow that starts as a 4" 90* elbow 4-6 inches from the bottom of the barrel. This exits the barrel and is immediately dropped down to a 2" line which feeds my Performance Pro Artesian 1/2 -75 pump. a 2" line exits the pump and is up sized to a 3" line to my shower filter. I am having drawdown issues with this setup and have to close down the valve on my outflow line to keep from sucking the pump dry.
    This barrel is for gross mechanical filtration only.
    My current plan is to wye the 2 inflow lines into a 6" pipe to feed the barrel. I will minimize the length of 2" line before the pump and upsize he 2" outflow line to 4" immediately after the pump.
    My real issue is how to configure the in and out and waste lines in the barrel. I have no idea whether or how much the switch to the 6" line will increase my inflow.
    Presently I have 1 roll of springflo media crunched down in the bottom half of the barrel and it is a downflow type of filtration. My goal with the barrel is to catch the few leaves that make it past the skimmer along with the cedar/juniper needles that blow off the trees. I have a new barrel with no holes in it so any ideas are welcomed!! Thanks !

  2. #2
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,620
    Rather than the expense of buying 6" plumbing and valve, why not just bring both skimmer lines into the barrel on their own? You'd only need to buy a couple of uniseals and a couple of knife valves. Less than $120 for everything I'd say. A single 6" knife valve will cost you way more than that.

  3. #3
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaGirl View Post
    Rather than the expense of buying 6" plumbing and valve, why not just bring both skimmer lines into the barrel on their own? You'd only need to buy a couple of uniseals and a couple of knife valves. Less than $120 for everything I'd say. A single 6" knife valve will cost you way more than that.
    This is true, but the flow rate for one 6" pipe is more than two 4" pipes.

    See: GPM/GPH Flow based on PVC Pipe Size, ie, How much water can flow through Sch 40 Pvc Pipe Size 1/2" 3/4" 1" 1.5" 2" 2.5" 3" 4" 6"

  4. #4
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,744
    OK, let me say my tag line again...."It's a System".

    The reference is to DESIGNING for a total system and not individual parts. I went to the performance pro website but did not have the adequate information to determining EXACTLY which pump you have. Here is a list of their PDF files for their pumps performance curves. This will tell us how much water the pump pumps (needs) for given head pressures. The next step would be to calculate the head pressure of your discharge side plumbing. (how amy feet of what size pipe, number and types of fittings and any elevation hieghts above pond water level that the pump has to pump up to.

    Once we know those variables and the "tolerance" in draw down in your barrel, we can then tell you what the supply side plumbing needs to be.

    There is a friction loss calculator (from the It's a System series last Jan. I believe) in the KOI USA archive (website) that the pump's and plumbing info can be plugged into to get the results.

    Side note...funny how engineering and design can play an intregal role (for PW's benefit)

    Index of /PDF_Files/Curves

    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  5. #5
    Oyagoi CarolinaGirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    1,620
    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    True, but running both of the existing pipes into a single 6" pipe won't increase the flow if the two existing pipes are not increased in size as well. Since those two pipes are already in place, simply running them into the barrel will be cheaper and just as effective as running them both into a single 6" pipe and then into the barrel.

  6. #6
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,744
    Ric and Cindy, the question really is whether any of the options you present supply an adequate amount of water for the barrel's tolerance and even if so, there is yet another issue not yet considered.

    If I can get that pump model number (that matches up to one of the performance curves) and the piping info, we can solve the initial issues and then evaluate the other issue I allude to.

    I'd also like to get the barrel's diameter and height measurements.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  7. #7
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaGirl View Post
    True, but running both of the existing pipes into a single 6" pipe won't increase the flow if the two existing pipes are not increased in size as well.
    That depends on the length of the 4" pipes and the length of the 6" pipe.
    Like schildkoi said; there is friction loss to calculate.
    The longer the pipe and the more fittings - decreases the flow rate.

    Since those two pipes are already in place, simply running them into the barrel will be cheaper and just as effective as running them both into a single 6" pipe and then into the barrel.
    I agree that 6" pipe and fittings are expensive, but don't agree that the 6" pipe might not be effective.

  8. #8
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Ric and Cindy, the question really is whether any of the options you present supply an adequate amount of water for the barrel's tolerance and even if so, there is yet another issue not yet considered.

    If I can get that pump model number (that matches up to one of the performance curves) and the piping info, we can solve the initial issues and then evaluate the other issue I allude to.

    I'd also like to get the barrel's diameter and height measurements.
    I agree, you need to know the pump's demands.

    I am having a little problem with a 8800 gallon pond dumping into a 70 gallon barrel feeding a 1/2 HP pump (if that is what it is).
    How effective is the 70 gallon barrel's mechanical filtration?

  9. #9
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,653
    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaGirl View Post
    True, but running both of the existing pipes into a single 6" pipe won't increase the flow if the two existing pipes are not increased in size as well.
    Let me explain it another way.
    That is like saying that if you have a qt with a 25 foot 2" pipe that is gravity fed to another tank, if you replaced the 2" pipe with a 3" pipe, there would be no flow advantage if you did not replace the 2" bulkhead fitting (increase its size) at the qt.
    Sure, replacing the 2" bulkhead fitting with a 3 " bulkhead fitting is better, but on long runs, a 3" pipe (with a 2" fitting) will perform better (than the 2" pipe with a 2" fitting).
    Last edited by ricshaw; 11-10-2010 at 07:59 PM. Reason: clarify

  10. #10
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,744
    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    I agree, you need to know the pump's demands.

    I am having a little problem with a 8800 gallon pond dumping into a 70 gallon barrel feeding a 1/2 HP pump (if that is what it is).
    How effective is the 70 gallon barrel's mechanical filtration?
    BINGO! (at least at the water volume I am guessing that the pump will use).

    The effectiveness of a vortex is dependent on two factors, the dwell time and the reduction in current velocity (diameter is key here). If the resulting velocity reduction is minimal and the velocity is such that there is not enough dwell time, very liitle separation will occur. The larger, less heavy items (such as leaves) will smply pass right through and clog the pump's leaf basket anyway. But, let's wait for the specifics before we jump to that conclusion.
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Pond Design
    By jimfish98 in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 06-25-2011, 10:23 AM
  2. My new pond design
    By eds in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 11-22-2010, 04:53 PM
  3. New pond design
    By Koiboy23 in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-17-2010, 10:22 AM
  4. My own filter design
    By Erns in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-04-2007, 03:46 PM
  5. need help with pond design
    By kresler in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-26-2007, 12:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com