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Thread: my on concrete slab above ground 3k pond

  1. #11
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Ok, just re-read your initial post a little more carefully now...

    This is trouble almost for sure. I read that you intend to build a base to allow a bottom drain. That part is good. Keep in mind you'll need to use at least 2X6 to allow for the plumbing. Now the bigger problem with this is unless you were planning on placing this structure on top of the floor you've just taken away any strength the bottom beam might lend to the studs. You follow what I mean? If the floor is built within the existing wall structure you're effectively making the bottom of the pond floor rely entirely on the vertical studs which might not work out too good.

    Also keep in mind that a 4"X4" is no stronger than a 2"X4" in this configuration. The strength comes from the width. A 2"X6" is far stronger than a 4"X4". The only thing that the 4"X4" does better than a 2"X4" is resist crushing when laid flat on a surface and then have weight on it.

    Grant

  2. #12
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcuss View Post
    Ok, just re-read your initial post a little more carefully now...

    This is trouble almost for sure. I read that you intend to build a base to allow a bottom drain. That part is good. Keep in mind you'll need to use at least 2X6 to allow for the plumbing. Now the bigger problem with this is unless you were planning on placing this structure on top of the floor you've just taken away any strength the bottom beam might lend to the studs. You follow what I mean? If the floor is built within the existing wall structure you're effectively making the bottom of the pond floor rely entirely on the vertical studs which might not work out too good.

    Also keep in mind that a 4"X4" is no stronger than a 2"X4" in this configuration. The strength comes from the width. A 2"X6" is far stronger than a 4"X4". The only thing that the 4"X4" does better than a 2"X4" is resist crushing when laid flat on a surface and then have weight on it.

    Grant
    i was going to build a subfloor for ease of moving the structure later. I looked at it today and im just putting mdx plywood on the side stapled together making the structure a system running the play wood all the way to the concrete ground overlaping the verticals and the 4x6.then fill the bottom with dirt to make a sloped floor. im going to loose a few extra inches, but it will be a much nicer temp pond. It will have a 2x6 cross brace on the top of the structure. you have to remember. its around 24k lbs but its water its going to push evenly on all sides of the structure. Its also not going to be a shock load its a constant load. If it was a shock or repeating load it would not hold up.
    800 gallon pond
    handful of koi
    I need some help

  3. #13
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFD.BBurns4667 View Post
    i was going to build a subfloor for ease of moving the structure later. I looked at it today and im just putting mdx plywood on the side stapled together making the structure a system running the play wood all the way to the concrete ground overlaping the verticals and the 4x6.then fill the bottom with dirt to make a sloped floor. im going to loose a few extra inches, but it will be a much nicer temp pond. It will have a 2x6 cross brace on the top of the structure. you have to remember. its around 24k lbs but its water its going to push evenly on all sides of the structure. Its also not going to be a shock load its a constant load. If it was a shock or repeating load it would not hold up.

    Sounds like you've thought it out. I'm not going to say it won't work, but I would be a little concerned over the long haul. I understand you're going to put members across the top and such, but it's a lot of force that is live, not static and I worry about the joints where the vertical studs are tied into the bottom and top rails. From the pictures it looks like you've toe-nailed it in. At the very least I suggest using metal plates or long lag bolts that you'd pre-drill to join it...

    Also, the pressure or force exerted by the water on the wall isn't equal by any stretch of the imagination. It increases the deeper you go. Try this little experiment to see what I mean. Take a tin can and punch nail holes every 1/2 inch or so up the side of it. Fill the can with water. The holes at the top will barely dribble out but the bottom holes will stream out. This is the same as your pond will be...

    I would also caution against using MDF ( I believe you meant MDF, not MDX?) Any moisture gets into that stuff and it loses all of it's integrity, and also it doesn't have the lineal strength of plywood.

    Best wishes,

    Grant

  4. #14
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcuss View Post
    Sounds like you've thought it out. I'm not going to say it won't work, but I would be a little concerned over the long haul. I understand you're going to put members across the top and such, but it's a lot of force that is live, not static and I worry about the joints where the vertical studs are tied into the bottom and top rails. From the pictures it looks like you've toe-nailed it in. At the very least I suggest using metal plates or long lag bolts that you'd pre-drill to join it...

    Also, the pressure or force exerted by the water on the wall isn't equal by any stretch of the imagination. It increases the deeper you go. Try this little experiment to see what I mean. Take a tin can and punch nail holes every 1/2 inch or so up the side of it. Fill the can with water. The holes at the top will barely dribble out but the bottom holes will stream out. This is the same as your pond will be...

    I would also caution against using MDF ( I believe you meant MDF, not MDX?) Any moisture gets into that stuff and it loses all of it's integrity, and also it doesn't have the lineal strength of plywood.

    Best wishes,

    Grant
    yes mdx. i wouldnt think wood chips would hold it together lol

  5. #15
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Cool, yes MDX is good stuff, but a bit harder to find. The paper coating helps it with moisture too.

    Best,

    Grant

  6. #16
    Tosai
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    filled it up with water about 5 inches. installed my bulkhead for my retro drain and waiting on my bulkhead for my air pump line.

    I did have a mishap. cinderblock on the ledge to hold the liner fell off and made small hole inthe liner. I made a patch with extra liner and used pl roof flasher on it to make a seal. then made a larger patch and layered it with pl and put it on top of the other patch.

    More to come Im at work right now. I also am building a breezeway over the pond as you can see the framework metal roof is ordered i just have to paint and put on the metal.

  7. #17
    Tosai
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    on a side note my mud pond i dug was filled by the super thunderstorm that ran through here the past 2 days after not raining for 2 months Itsa about 6 foot in the deep but avg 4 feet. I will be putting some pond muts in here once it clears up a little. My soil is very sandy with a layer of clay underneath. Do I need any pumps in this pond or can the fish live naturally in here?

  8. #18
    Tosai
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  9. #19
    Tosai
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    Filling the pond
    YouTube - ‪New koi pond‬‏



    YouTube - ‪Koi pond 3000 gallons‬‏
    the pond full with some 3-4 inch koi to get the bio started
    Still waiting on my air diffuser the air pump is just pumping out of a open 3/4 inch pipe
    how many GPM do you think im flowing if you had to guess? im using a 3000gph pump from lowes run inline. I highly doubt its pumping anywhere near that.
    Im going to run 2 s&G 55 gallon filters with no settle ment chamber.

  10. #20
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFD.BBurns4667 View Post

    YouTube - ‪Koi pond 3000 gallons‬‏
    the pond full with some 3-4 inch koi to get the bio started
    Still waiting on my air diffuser the air pump is just pumping out of a open 3/4 inch pipe
    how many GPM do you think im flowing if you had to guess? im using a 3000gph pump from lowes run inline. I highly doubt its pumping anywhere near that.
    Im going to run 2 s&G 55 gallon filters with no settle ment chamber.
    Any artificial lighting? It looks so dark in there.

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