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Thread: 10 to 12 thousand gallon pond build

  1. #41
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    "The" (as in one) BD...for 10,000+ gallons? Maybe not so good.

    BDs need to be planned from two different aspects.

    1. The water volume they will pull every hour: For a typical 4" koi pond filter this is around 4000 gallons. Smaller flows in 4" pipe means the pipe can turn into a settlement chamber. Higher flows will not happen with gravity fed filters without serious drawdown.
    2. The floor surface area they service: The effective serving radius for a 4" BD is up to around 10'
    For my 10,000 gallond pond with a floor that is 10'x16' there are two 4" BDs centered in each logical half of the pond. Each is pulling ~3500gph to a Nexus filter.

    Don't want to push or pull more water in our pond. That adds both capex (pumps, pipe..etc.) and opex (electricity costs)....and will not likely provide any better water quality. If the filters are right sized for the load (fish and their food) a turnover rate of once an hour is a gracious plenty.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  2. #42
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    I wouldn't want to say for sure on the reducer... It's one of those things though... Near impossible to change after you find out the bad news, but it sucks throwing it out. So, are you a gamblin' man? Personally, I'd bin it and get the right one. It's just not worth the hassle or the heartache if the one you currently have comes up short. In another pond of mine I built a aerated bottom drain out of an 89 dollar non-aerated drain by ordering a diffuser and some custom plumbing. Here I go again (if you're feeling ambitious)

    As far as the draw down. Determine the level your water will sit at in the pond once you're closer to completion. You'll have to use something to get a level line over to your filter pit. A long *straight* 2X4 or similar with a level on it should help. Then measure down from the lip of your pond to the projected water level in the pond. Using that measurement set your settlement tank 4" above the water line of the pond to be safe. Then as far as the outflow, yeah, just have to custom trim the exit pipe in the middle to the right height. You'll find that out easy enough once all the plumbing is in place, and the pumps are running. Start long and trim as you go till you get it right. What I did was on the 4" pipe that comes up the center of my filter and provides the exit, I put a fernco fitting on it without the hose clamps. This slid up and down about 6" to allow me to fine tune it once I was close.

    Keep on going, it's worth it in the end!!

    Best,

    Grant

  3. #43
    Oyagoi gcuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    "The" (as in one) BD...for 10,000+ gallons? Maybe not so good.

    BDs need to be planned from two different aspects.

    1. The water volume they will pull every hour: For a typical 4" koi pond filter this is around 4000 gallons. Smaller flows in 4" pipe means the pipe can turn into a settlement chamber. Higher flows will not happen with gravity fed filters without serious drawdown.
    2. The floor surface area they service: The effective serving radius for a 4" BD is up to around 10'

    For my 10,000 gallond pond with a floor that is 10'x16' there are two 4" BDs centered in each logical half of the pond. Each is pulling ~3500gph to a Nexus filter.

    Don't want to push or pull more water in our pond. That adds both capex (pumps, pipe..etc.) and opex (electricity costs)....and will not likely provide any better water quality. If the filters are right sized for the load (fish and their food) a turnover rate of once an hour is a gracious plenty.

    His pond is more or less a fat, stubby thermometer shape with the water coming from a waterfull at the tip of the thermometer and flowing down the deeper bowl portion (the mercury reservoir) and it's my understanding I convinced him to put a bottom drain in the lower bowl, as well as one further up. I believe he's only plumbing the second bottom drain for now, and will cap it to be used in the future when more money comes available for filtration. His fish load is woefully small for the pond size and with his TPR's moving stuff towards the bowl portion I advised him he should be ok as far as moving waste down to the one drain for the time being. Best to put it in during construction even if not used right away. Lot's of room for additional goodies once he really becomes a pond junkie...

    Grant

  4. #44
    Sansai
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    WOW! I'm SO upset right now at the guy who sold me the 3" bottom drain!!! Im fumming mad! But you live and learn right? I'm not going to mention the ridiculous price he charged me, but.... I bought this the first day we decided to build a pond! He was the ONLY source and advice I had at the time. I'm much more educated now... a WHOLE 3 months of researching and reading and reading and reading. hahaha
    OK.... YES I planned to actually have a bottom drain on the upper portion, and the lower bowl portion. The LOWER portion will get 90% of all the solids I'm positive of it! I've already plumbed and buried this 3" drain then with a PVC adapter imediately converted to 4"inch PVC. But the initial hole to the drain is a 3" hole .It also has an air difuser (posted pictures of the B/D cover with difuser). I was hoping I could just buy another 4" simular B/D and use the same cover???? as I have also installed a 1" pipe for the air-line.
    GRRRR I'm so mad!!!
    Grant? I LOVE TO GAMBLE!!!! Just not with my pond or it's build!!!! hahaha way to much time and $$$$$ invested! I need it right! SO.... I'm definitely going to get a 4" B/D, and maybe still use the same Cover I've already got with the defuser.
    Well..... I'm going to go dig that sucker up RIGHT now!
    question? do you think my (thermostat stem) hahaha part of my pond will be ok with the 3" B/D I've already got? and possibly a DIY cover????
    By the way.... the cover /with defuser is about 18" diameter.
    Thanks again you guys!!! You don't KNOW how appreciative I am for your help!! Means the WORLD to me

    So......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 10 to 12 thousand gallon pond build-bottom-drain-cover.jpg   10 to 12 thousand gallon pond build-bottom-drain-1.jpg  

  5. #45
    MCA
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    I would seriously suggest you study the Welsh club site on pond construction. Some of the materials (poured pond, block walls, fiberglass sealant) can be over the budget. The key is to look for the principles of good pond design (if the design is not good...implementation can not fix that) and good implementation approaches.

    A Guide to Modern Koi Pond Construction.


    I FULLY understand about being angry over a pond construction. Our first pond in Texas was a dang water garden....and I specifcally asked for a koi pond. But the burden was on me the consumer to know the difference and stop the construction when it headed into water garden land. I did not know the difference...and so I did not what we really wanted. Initially, I ignored the pond as it was something the wife wanted. Then I realized it was rubbish and started doing my research on koi and koi ponds. I joined a Dallas area AKCA club and later ZNA. At that time I met Steve and Cheryl Childers and they introduced to Nigel and and whole cast of koi kichi. I started a koi library. Again the burden was on me....it was my money, my yard, and the wife's fish.

    Be glad your learning curve has stepped up when it did. It could be FAR worse. There are folks who have built many ponds (or paid enormous sums to have others build them) and ended up with something what was not spot on. All of these years of experience, and lost investment in detours, is why some of us on this board can be a little tough when we start hearing water garden approaches creep in. Hang in there....and continue to ask questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  6. #46
    Sansai
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    UGH!!! I hate how my job gets in the way of my pond construction!!!
    Been a real busy week, haven't had much time or energy to work on my pond. BUT.... I did however buy a couple 5500 pumps today! Suppose to run @ 2.4 amps, both with 2" intake and outakes. Also bought two 4" (bulk heads) for my two bottom drains. I hope to really get after some work on this thing this weekend and will post pictures when I can!
    Thank you Grant, and MCA! I have went with your suggestions and listened to you guys as I'm just the apprentice and people like you are Jedi-knights ~
    I hope to lay another footing around my existing above ground wall, and then put another wall of blocks, which will contain my plumbing (pipes for skimmers and TPR's). After I get the other wall up I will lay insulation for the pipes above and below and on the sides. I also will run rebar between the blocks and fill the blocks with concrete for MORE support! I wonder how much pressure will be going on my block wall with all that water pressing on it. I'm scared, hence why I'll put rebar bewteen the blocks above the pipes and fill full of concrete slury.
    Plz keep the comments and advice comming!
    THanks you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #47
    Sansai
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    I found a few rocks lying around on a job-site today... thought they might look cool around my two HUGE 300 gallon biological ruubbermade filters. (If I can find any room left over up there to make a waterfall.... sheesh Those tubs took up 85% of the room I had initially planned for a waterfall area :|
    Anyway... had to brag about my road find today
    Ok.... nevermind! wont let me add the picture! says "this isn't a valid picture file".
    to be continued.......

  8. #48
    Sansai dubtaco's Avatar
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    Looks like you're off to a good start..

  9. #49
    Sansai
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    Thanks Dubco!!!
    Seams you live close, you should come see the build this far and see if you have any idea's or thoughts on how I might want to do this thing differently??? I didn't even know other people in utah owned koi! This is GREAT news

  10. #50
    Sansai
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    Ok,
    To be completely honest... I have this Aug. 13th deadline to get this pond up and running... this thing is DRAINING me emotionally! and Financially! I have wasted LOTS of money on buying stuff and changing my mind later, (3" bottom drain, bought 2 cheap swimming pool skimmers $60 each, wasted a few cans of glue left in the weather and ruined, and mortar in weather and ruined... put DIY'ed 2 huge air defusers that didn't work! bought a bunch of 3" pipe and pieces for my skimmer line which i've changed my mind to 4" $$$$ and mental breakdown!
    Me and my girlfriend got in a HUGE fight and this thing is killing me... Just for some fish!
    Anyway, moral of the story here is...... STUDY STUDY STUDY First then PLAN your WHOLE build b4 just diving in!
    Ok... I'm gonna go pout and sit on my pitty pot (the couch) and think everything through. :|

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