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Thread: moving!

  1. #11
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    When you excavate the pond, you also excavate the filter pit next door. The filter pit depth does not have to be the same as the pond. The needed filter pit depth should match the filters you select. For example if you will connect sieves to the BDs. Then you want that filter pit floor to be around 4' below the max water line in the pond. Then you can build pedistals with simple block and mortar to get the precise height needed for that brand/model of sieve. The same goes for any other non-pressurized chamber that is to be gravity fed such as vortex chambers. When I poured the floor of my filter pit, I had the 4" drain lines and 1" air lines in place from each of the BDs. I also put in a floor drain that feeds storm drains. Folks not lucky enough to be able to use storm drains may need to put in a sump and sump pump in the first pit floor. Remember that when you purge a BD 4" line, dump a vortex, or backwash a big bead filter....you have to have some place for that water to go. So you need a serious sump pump or the filter pit can end up with inches of water until an undersized sump pump can finally clean the pit.

    This leads to one of the many reasons I like semi-raised ponds. With walls in the 18-24" range you give folks lots of places to sit. Also there is less excavation in the pond pit and in the filter pit. With a semiraised design there is much less risk of yard chemicals, wind blown trash, kids, and 4 legged pets endding up in the water.

    One of the best sites for designing a koi pond is the Welsh site: A Guide to Modern Koi Pond Construction.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  2. #12
    Nisai
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    wow what an awesome website. So i have another question. if i used a BD going to a sieve then over to any kind of filter(non pressureized) then have the outlet of that filter going to the pump then to a pressurized bead filter. I m only asking since I like the sieve or vortex method(get all the big crap out) but they arnt pressurized.....so Im looking for a fix.

  3. #13
    Nisai
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    also side note Im getting 2 Purdin koi this week. 1 Kohaku, and 1 Random. Im excited to see what its going to be. Pictures will come.

  4. #14
    WAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulsey View Post
    wow what an awesome website. So i have another question. if i used a BD going to a sieve then over to any kind of filter(non pressureized) then have the outlet of that filter going to the pump then to a pressurized bead filter. I m only asking since I like the sieve or vortex method(get all the big crap out) but they arnt pressurized.....so Im looking for a fix.
    The sieve must be directly connected to the pump. There cannot have another "container of water" in-between a sieve & the pump. After that you can pump-feed the water to either of the following:
    • pressurized bead
      • Can be situated below water level in the same "pit"
      • Can be situated above water level (remote -- behind waterfall, by the garage, by the AC unit, etc.)
    • non-pressurized (gravity discharge) filter
      • Cannot be situated below water level in the same "pit"
      • Can be situated above water level

  5. #15
    MCA
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    So i have another question. if i used a BD going to a sieve then over to any kind of filter(non pressureized) then have the outlet of that filter going to the pump then to a pressurized bead filter. I m only asking since I like the sieve or vortex method(get all the big crap out) but they arnt pressurized.....so Im looking for a fix.
    Not sure why you would do three devices in a row. If you a crude mechanical stage (sieve, static bead) then pump that through a bead filter....why do you anything more on that circuit? The bead filter will do fine mechanical stage plus bio conversion. No need for a third filter on that circuit...with the exception of a UV unit. Those are usually a good idea for any return other than a high volume shower.

  6. #16
    Nisai
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    well when the time comes Ill have to make some mark ups and design drawings and let you guys make some corrections or tips. now I go to the drawing board

  7. #17
    WAC
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    Once you have an idea of size, shape & all pertinent dimensions (L x W x D & stream/waterfall info) then it'd be a lot easier to fill in the blanks.

    moving!-angled-view-1-vers-2.jpg

    moving!-plan-view-2.jpg

    ... otherwise there's just too many variables that's not accounted for.

  8. #18
    Tategoi powerman's Avatar
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    I hate to be the voice of dissent , but if I was building a new pond, I wouldn't consider a bead filter as the main bio filtration... I probably would incorporate one in the system somewhere but I still feel that gravity fed filtration is far superior in water quality..
    I agree with the one bottom drain per 5,000 gallons... I would prefer vortexes over sieves for bottom drain water followed by brushes and aerated matting or moving beds... then a pump and a bead filter if you prefer to get some fines and add extra bio...
    If I used a sieve it would be fed by skimmers followed by a pump to a bakki shower... a bead filter could be used on this circuit as well to filter the water before the shower media...
    I like the open system with a constant trickle of source water and would use an activated carbon filter for that and have an overflow on the pond if practical

    the bottom drains would be aerated and the aerated matting in the gravity fed filters as well as the shower would keep the system highly aerobic ... good for koi... if a sieve is used on the skimmer circuit it would add aeration as well....

    I know there are many ways to skin a cat and as many ideas out there as there are stars in the sky, but for someone starting from scratch and coming to a serious koi keeping web site like this, I thought I would offer my opinion that bead filters work but wouldn't be the BEST way... jmho

  9. #19
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAC View Post
    Well stated ... I believe a sieve & bead filter is an excellent "husband & wife" team in pond filtration.
    A bead filter alone is not enough bio.

    If money is no option... something like this:


  10. #20
    WAC
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    A bead filter alone is not enough bio...
    I think that's quite relative to the bioload or lack-therof. You'd be surprise how many systems are out there that are not relying on additional filtration.

    To assume a bead filter plays no factor in biological filtration is a fallacy IMHO. Biological filtration utilizing the growth of beneficial bacteria for "bio-conversion" can & does occur in all areas where there is water contact.

    Efficiency of biological filtration varies tremendously by the % of dissolved oxygen (DO) as well as the % of particulates removed (via settlement, sieves, RDFs, etc).

    A misconception is a bead filter does no bio-filtration because it is "enclosed" & deprived of oxygen. Does anyone know how long oxygenated pond water DWELLS inside a bead filter? Water w/high DO level that enters a bead filter via turbulent splashing from a sieve does not magically become low DO.

    Like it or not, there are many systems out in the real world that utilize nothing more than just a bead filter as their main form of filtration. It's a case-by-case scenario but realize that bio-filtration is also closely tied into the actual existing bio-load as well as pre-planning for future bio-load.

    Even in my indoor quarantine system I have no other form of filtration other than a small Ultima II 1000 for varying fish loads.

    moving!-dsc_1141.jpg

    Here's 40" of canary fish that's been in for over 1yr & still showing growth.

    moving!-fishies.jpg

    The other variable noteworthy to mention is the frequency of water changes ... whether it be in the form of back-washing or a drip/flow-thru.

    Because a system can & will work so long as the parameters are kept in check.

    Here's one in my house that utilizes no filtration (zeolite substrate + lots of water changes).

    moving!-img_2345.jpg

    moving!-img_2349.jpg

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