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Thread: another searching for filter idea thread

  1. #1
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    another searching for filter idea thread

    *cursory background*
    I have a 6000 gallon pond, one bottom drain, two skimmers..... the BD feeds to an ultra sieve to an es8500 and then to an Ultima II 10,000 to four returns...... the two skimmers each have mag drive submersible 3500gph pumps.... one is split between the ultra sieve and the bog,, ( to keep enough water in the sieve for the pump) .... the other skimmer goes only to the bog.

    *question*
    I want to run a retro BD using an extra 4" BD and es5500 I have laying around. Ill screw some golf balls to the lip for spacers and flip it upside down.... run a 4" pipe to the edge then neck down to 2" to bring it up and over the edge.... going through the liner with a bulkhead isn't an option because I have a concrete curtain, to prevent collapse, under the liner.
    The platform I have for the filter(s) and pump sits about 4' above water line and is hidden behind the bog/landscaping.... I need some sort of prefilter prior to the pump and a bio filter that can handle 5500gph but doesn't need more... not counting head loss.... preferably all DIY
    I'm open to all suggestions
    fyi, I realize I a
    ready have a lot of turnover.... I just want more

  2. #2
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    If you're going over the wall with only a 2" pipe to be siphon/gravity draw, I don't readily know of a prefilter solution for you. Too easy to break siphon when cleaning the prefilter, even with backflow prevention valve. To me, to work long term it really needs to go through the pond wall. Perhaps someone else has a better idea, though.

  3. #3
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    what about a pressurized sieve? I have about 5" of concrete and wire under the liner.... I only cemented the walls to prevent cave-in. Going through the wall isn't a viable option. There is also the compact sieve which is pump fed,, but then I'd have to clean the priming pot at least once a day.... Has anyone used the zakki sieve?

  4. #4
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    More turnover sounds like added expense for no gain.

    Does your bog have a bottom drain? That would be a much better investment for you to consider in my opinion.

  5. #5
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaBear View Post
    More turnover sounds like added expense for no gain.

    Does your bog have a bottom drain? That would be a much better investment for you to consider in my opinion.
    my bog is made of several tins of cemenyed stone... a BD there isn't really viable either.... the gain I'm looking for is increased bio filtration.... maybe a little mechanical as well,, buy really all I need is more bio..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails another searching for filter idea thread-2013-02-18_12-57-10_39.jpg  

  6. #6
    Tategoi hewhoisatpeace's Avatar
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    If I were determined to do this, I would use a mid-water pickup instead of a bottom drain, plumb it over the side, through a check valve, into a pump with leaf basket, then to 2 parallel sand and gravel filters. The fines filtration would be a plus to your system, S&G filters do have a decent biological footprint, too. Mid water pickup because I wouldn't want bottom drain style heavy wastes going to my pump, even through a leaf basket. Mid water will get a lot less solid waste.

    S&G filters are cheap and easy, too, you could set up a new waterfall or TPRs to direct flow better, getting wastes pushed to the existing drain.
    Will Schultze
    (931) 338-6174



  7. #7
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    midwater is an option..... but the BD large waste removal along with bio is my main objectives... the bog handles the fined fairly well.... but I'll definitely keep a mental note of the idea if I can't realistically do a retro BD...... anyone ever use the zakki sieve? It's a pressurized sieve that is pre-pump for use above water level.... it sounds perfect,, but need a few opinions from trusted people beforw dropping $1100 on it.

  8. #8
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loco4Koi View Post
    my bog is made of several tins of cemenyed stone... a BD there isn't really viable either.... the gain I'm looking for is increased bio filtration.... maybe a little mechanical as well,, buy really all I need is more bio..
    I know this may go against the grain of your thinking, but the bogs are likely feeding the problem because they are a sump for trapped mulm.

    That is why I asked if they had bottom drains.

    Bog gardens will do one or two things.
    IF they are easily and regularly cleaned by draining the accumulated mulm from the bottom they can consume nitrates, phosphates, and other trace nutrients from the water column and provide a net positive value to the pond.
    If they are NOT easily and regularly cleaned of accumulated mulm they establish a "biofeedback loop" of decaying organics that create a net negative bioload to the pond that overloads the system and promotes an anaerobic breeding ground for disease organisms that thrive in that environment.

    Your Kujaku has an ulcer.
    Ulcers are a symptom of an underlying disease.
    The bog may well be the source.
    Treating the ulcer and adding more bio will only mask the underlying problem while providing no cure.
    A sick fish is a symptom of a diseased pond. Cure the pond and you cure the disease.

    The problem with trying to diagnose a problem like this is that we rely on tests for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, pH, kH, gH, etc...
    Nobody seems to test for total CFU which will reveal fecal coliform and all of its associated disease organisms.
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  9. #9
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    the bog is here to stay.... unfortunately I didn't include a means of cleaning it in the original design.... the pond builder I consulted with said they never need cleaning.... I wouldn't know where to begin with installing a BD in the bog.... tons of stone and concrete....I don't have a readily available photo of the bog in summer time..... it is extremely dense with tall, thick plants.... I just have to hope they do their job

  10. #10
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loco4Koi View Post
    the bog is here to stay.... unfortunately I didn't include a means of cleaning it in the original design.... the pond builder I consulted with said they never need cleaning.... I wouldn't know where to begin with installing a BD in the bog.... tons of stone and concrete....I don't have a readily available photo of the bog in summer time..... it is extremely dense with tall, thick plants.... I just have to hope they do their job
    Your pond builder was wrong. I completely understand your desire to "hope they do their job", but if "their job" was supposed to be cleansing the water of impurities without need of continual maintenance... you are hosed. Nature does not negotiate with us. It dictates what is and is not with no room for debate. Your pond builder may know how to build a perfectly sound pond "structurally", but he knows nothing about water purification processes in the real world.

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