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Thread: Doublewide Flattop

  1. #1
    MCA
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    Doublewide Flattop

    No, I am not talking about your Uncle Floyd's new trailer up in the holler. And no we are not talking about his haircut either.

    We are talking about a stainless steel Bakki House Shower.


    Years ago I followed Henry C's lead and used plastic Stacpac boxes to create showers. I had two showers that were 3 boxes high. I did use real Bakki House Media in the showers. Both of those stacks were feed by a Wave II 1/2hp pump that used water from the skimmer. They did a very good job as part of the overall pond filtration system. But alas, just as with Henry's stack being out side for years, they weathered and started to crack. So I know it was time to get serious about the showers. I had to a do a serious replacement or simply remove them from the pond system.

    I decided to go all in. So I got a replacement shower stack in stainless steel custom designed by Carl Forss. Each of the 4 trays is 36"x24" and therefore considered a double wide compared to single width trays that are 36"x12". Each tray is 12" tall. The trays all exit water from the bottom. The bottom tray releases water into a stainless steel base that has a weir for water to return to the pond. On the top tray the there are taller legs that hold up a stainless steel roof that keeps out leaves and pine needles. I put black matala on all sides of the top tray to keep water from splashing out. I scattered around 20lbs of crushed coral/aragonite on the top tray to slowly dissolve and release carbonates. We have very soft water here.

    The new shower is being fed by the same 1/2hp pump used for the old showers. I could get a bit more flow by enlarging the holes in the spray manifold above the top tray. But, I really like the splashing of the water from all the jets hitting the media. I have no plans to change the shower. I will know more by the end of the summer.

    The two BD circuits each feed a Cetus sieve and then an Aquadyne 4.4 bead filter. I like that combo and run them all winter. I bypass showers in the winter. Doublewide Flattop-frontview.jpgDoublewide Flattop-sideview.jpg
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  2. #2
    Sansai dubtaco's Avatar
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    I've always wanted a stainless bakki shower, looks great and should hold up for a very long time. How would I get in touch with Carl to see about having one made?

  3. #3
    MCA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubtaco View Post
    I've always wanted a stainless bakki shower, looks great and should hold up for a very long time. How would I get in touch with Carl to see about having one made?
    You can contact Carl at [email protected]

  4. #4
    Oyagoi Flounder's Avatar
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    Love it!

    The idea of using SS trays is great. Can you shoot pics of how the trays are stay on top of each other and still have that air space in between?

    The hobbyists in the UK have it great with those SS trays, I was gonna get a few sets but the price of the freight is too much to get them across the pond.

  5. #5
    MCA
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    There are holes in the corner of the bottom of each tray. Those holes are around 5/8 or 3/4". The weir base has 4 legs welded in place to match the holes of the first tray. Those legs are 1" square SS stock tubing with a SS bolt welded in the upwards end with threads exposed. So the first tray stills down on those legs and the threads of the bolts go through the holes. The legs for the subsequent levels of trans are make of the same 1" SS tubing. The have a SS nut welding onto on end and a SS bolt weld on the other end with the threads sticking out. Each leg is installed nut side down onto the thread from the the leg from the lower base or tray. This keeps the bottom of one level of trans level with the top of the tray below. The trays flare out 2" in all directions. This give good air flow and minimizes water splashing out. When all the levels are assembled, go back and tighten each leg into the lower leg, one level at a time.

    The legs inside the top tray are around 6" longer. The legs support the top which is a sheet of SS with 4 hoses for the legs. The top cover is held on with 4 SS acorn nuts. The extra height of this set of legs allows 3" pipe to come enter between the top cover and the lip of the top tray.

    I hope the description helps, I did not take photos during the assemble.

    We just home from a weekend in Savannah/Tybee Island. The water is gin clear without UV. Is it the shower? Can't swear by it....but it don't hurt.
    PapaBear likes this.

  6. #6
    Daihonmei PapaBear's Avatar
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    Great looking shower and a very solid design.

    My favorable bias toward showers isn't exactly a secret, but your early results don't surprise me in the least. Most of the problems people experience with them at first are the result of installing one on a pond that is already heavily fed and half green. You are firing yours up early in the season before the spring algae bloom has a chance to establish a foothold and your water isn't laden with DOC's to treat you with a huge drift of foam from the fractionating effect of the showers. As usual, you are well ahead of the curve Then again, you are one of the people I like to point out to folks who have water quality questions, so good results from you never surprise me
    Larry Iles
    Oklahoma

  7. #7
    MCA
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    I got a PM asking about my shower stack.

    Momotaro standard shower stacks are 4 trays that usually sit in a weir/pan that lets water back into to pond from a long side or end. I think various dealers customize weirs to fit the installation site. Each of the trays is 1m long by 300mm wide and 300mm tall. So there is roughly 3 cubic feet of space in each tray for media. Momotaro also makes a double wide shower stack with trays that are 600mm wide with roughly 6 cubic feet of space in each tray.

    My stack is 4 trays high. Each tray at the bottom is 3 feet long by 2 feet wide by 1 foot tall. The trays flare out on all side by around 2". This flare help prevent water splashing out and also allows for plenty of air flow between trays. Each tray has more than 6 cubic feet of room for media. In each tray I have put around 3 cubic feet of Bakki House media. I want plenty of room for the water to fall and splash onto the media in the next tray.

    I was asked about flow rates. If you are doing a Bakki House shower(s) as your prime filtration method, I would play for turning over the water at least once each hour. That probably means you need to use more than one source (BD or skimmer) to provide that amount of flow. Also the greater flow rates come at a cost in pumps and power consumption. If you want to do a serious flow in the 8000+gph range get a pump like an Advantage ESBB10500 and use 3" pipe to feed the shower. Have a manifold over the top shower tray that delivers the water uniformly without splashing the water out. Usually that is a matter of drilling enough large holes in the manifold pipe. The other aspect about flow is to have a weir under the bottom tray that is tall enough to direct the water back to the pond without overflowing the sides.

    Ideally you would use some type of mechanical stage such as a sieve or RDF before the shower. I feed my shower from the pond's only skimmer and do not have a mechanical stage on it (at least for now). Each of my two BDs feeds a sieve and then an Aquadyne 4.4 bead filter. In the winter I bypass the shower as I have plenty of filtration from the two bead filters.

    I hope some of this helps folks think more about using showers as part of the koi pond system.

  8. #8
    MCA
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    Have a manifold over the top shower tray that delivers the water uniformly without splashing the water out. Usually that is a matter of drilling enough large holes in the manifold pipe.
    My own post got me to thinking....very dangerous indeed. When I have the plastic box shower stacks I have a pipe manifold on to spray out the water into a shorter plastic box that have a regular pattern of holes. When I did the stainless shower I made a large manifold to spray water on the media in the top tray.

    But spraying water means I am using pump pressure to create the sprays. What I really want is max water deliver to the top shower tray. And that can not be achieved if I use some of the pump pressure to create jets instead of more volume.

    So I am going back to the idea I had in the plastic box shower stack. I will deliver the water to water distribution tray/pan positioned above the top shower tray. The key is to have enough lholes that are just large enough to cause the water to pool just enough in the tray/pan to cause the water to uniformly fall through the holes onto the media below. I have a poly tray on order. I will drill a regular pattern of holes in the bottom and see how much difference it makes to reduce back pressure on the pump and let gravity rain the water down on the media.

  9. #9
    Nisai vipertom's Avatar
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    I got three showers and only use distribution top trays with 3/16 holes and have 3/16" holes on the bottom of each tray. I got no pressure in the system except head height to max out the flow with minimum power consumption. With good pumps I am flowing 15,000+GPH with less then 750Watts.

    I use Stakpak as distribution trays for two showers.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Doublewide Flattop-shower-206.jpg   Doublewide Flattop-pond10.jpg  

  10. #10
    MCA
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    Thanks.

    I used one of the short Stakpak trays for distribution in my previous stack. But I sprayed water into the tray wasting pump volume to get the pressure for the sprays. I am supposed to get plastic tray via UPS today that I can drip to experiment with a distribution tray that is 24"x36" to match my doublewide shower stack. Once I get a good idea of how this will work, I will likely have it replicated in 316 stainless to match the shower.

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