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Thread: Let if flow!

  1. #21
    Honmei ricshaw's Avatar
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    What size pipe should I use?

    Steve Walker, President of Sacramento Koi, discusses pipe size.




    Direct link to YouTube video.

  2. #22
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricshaw View Post
    Steve Walker, President of Sacramento Koi, discusses pipe size.




    Direct link to YouTube video.

    Thank you. I should point out that his criteria for recommending 3" BD's is for debris handling, not flow rates. I intentionally went with 2" so that my flow velocity would be higher, as my run has a long vertical section to overcome, and i need higher velocities to remove HTW debris. A 3" pipe would have left me with too slow of a flow to lift heavy debris like pebbles up the 7 feet of vertical pipe. If you ever want to know if your system is removing that kind of debris, borrow a doctors stethoscope and listen to your BD line. If it sounds like a rattle snake rattle, you have pebbles/rocks just bouncing around in one section of the pipe and not making it to your strainer. A sure sign of low flow velocity.

    Flow velocity, flow velocity, flow velocity.

  3. #23
    MCA
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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    One way to prevent settlement in the BD pipe is indeed to drop the pipe size to increase velocity. To me that approach is only addressing settlement in the BD line. Personally I want a more comprehensive approach. Leave the pipe size at 4" and increase the flow. We already know a 4" pipe can easily deliver over 10,000gph flow to the filters. Lets take advantage of that to increase flow rates for more filtration and aeration.

    I will be increasing my BD line flow from the 4000gph range to the 6000gph range. That means a faster overall turn over of the pond through the two BD lines, sieves, and filters. That also means stronger currents in the pond. All of those are positives

    Everyone should think about the pumps and filters on their BD lines. If you are only doing around 3000gph.....why? Can the flow rate be increased with a different pump, modifications to existing filters, replacement filters, or adding a new filter like a shower?

    Filtration and aeration are like most things in life....more is better.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  4. #24
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCA View Post
    One way to prevent settlement in the BD pipe is indeed to drop the pipe size to increase velocity. To me that approach is only addressing settlement in the BD line. Personally I want a more comprehensive approach. Leave the pipe size at 4" and increase the flow. We already know a 4" pipe can easily deliver over 10,000gph flow to the filters. Lets take advantage of that to increase flow rates for more filtration and aeration.

    I will be increasing my BD line flow from the 4000gph range to the 6000gph range. That means a faster overall turn over of the pond through the two BD lines, sieves, and filters. That also means stronger currents in the pond. All of those are positives

    Everyone should think about the pumps and filters on their BD lines. If you are only doing around 3000gph.....why? Can the flow rate be increased with a different pump, modifications to existing filters, replacement filters, or adding a new filter like a shower?

    Filtration and aeration are like most things in life....more is better.
    That's the ideal situation, but often cost prohibitive for some. To raise flow rate to 10,000gph is a huge leap up in filter and pump capacity from 3-4000gph. An expensive one. And if your pond is only a few thousand gallons, there isn't much benefit.

  5. #25
    Sansai
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    When I first was designing my pond I went to the local (koi pond) dealer. He recommended I buy 3" BD's and domes etc. I did JUST that... I listened to this guy.. he charged me like 750$ for these two things... I placed them and even concreted them in.. With my huge pond I have since tore them oput and placed 4" pipes and just used 90's. I plan to DIY my domes (BD covers). So this thread is interesting to me. I am going to have to pull A LOT of water to over come my 5' rise through my main BD. I'm appreciative of this thread, also Glad MCA likes the 4" BD line better than 3" cause with my pond now being in concrete I'm stuck with what I already have. OH BTW, those expensive 3" BD's I originally bought? for liner? are in a pile with thousands of other dollars worth of stuff I've changed my mind on UGH! I'll get MUCH water movement through these lines! -Mike

  6. #26
    Tosai
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    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    When I first was designing my pond I went to the local (koi pond) dealer. He recommended I buy 3" BD's and domes etc. I did JUST that... I listened to this guy.. he charged me like 750$ for these two things... I placed them and even concreted them in.. With my huge pond I have since tore them oput and placed 4" pipes and just used 90's. I plan to DIY my domes (BD covers). So this thread is interesting to me. I am going to have to pull A LOT of water to over come my 5' rise through my main BD. I'm appreciative of this thread, also Glad MCA likes the 4" BD line better than 3" cause with my pond now being in concrete I'm stuck with what I already have. OH BTW, those expensive 3" BD's I originally bought? for liner? are in a pile with thousands of other dollars worth of stuff I've changed my mind on UGH! I'll get MUCH water movement through these lines! -Mike
    Is your system gravity fed? I run 2" suction lines on my pump fed system but the filters gravity feed into the pond from there, and my 4" returns are just barely able to handle the flow. Almost wish they were 6".

  7. #27
    Sansai
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoiJuno View Post
    Is your system gravity fed? I run 2" suction lines on my pump fed system but the filters gravity feed into the pond from there, and my 4" returns are just barely able to handle the flow. Almost wish they were 6".
    Sorry I'm just getting back to this. Yes my system will be gravity feed. I will most likely gravity feed them to some sort of sieve, then pump fed to a filter of sorts, or directly back through some jets -Mike

  8. #28
    Tategoi
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    I also prefer larger BD lines. I use 4" because I change things around so much. but I agree, the lines need a purge at least once a week.

    A sump can be emptied and a line will send a higher velocity into the sump when the line is opened. You will have to compute the flow when the flow is at maximum velocity. Less than 5fps for a few seconds isn't a reliable purge.

    I will have a valve installed near the bottom where the line exits from under the pond and contain it in a sump down there.

    I have a problem with BD & Mid level lines going directly to the pump suction. Swimming pool BD & skimmer lines are installed in parallel, one way or another, so suction pressures are less likely to trap someone who covers the drain with their body or gets long hair pulled into the drain. Those codes were developed because cphildren and people with ling hair were getting stuck by the suction pressure of by wrapping their hair around the grate(many of up have that cover stem in our ponds.

  9. #29
    Tategoi Loco4Koi's Avatar
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    I run one 4" BD that sits at 6' deep to my ultra sieve... I have the other 4" opening plugged into a t off my skimmer,,, (that skimmer otherwise feeds my bog and falls along with my 2nd skimmer,,, each skimmer has a submersible little giant mag drive 4000gph pump) I usually keep that ball valved closed. With one BD feeding my ultrasieve and an es8500 pump to an ultimaII 10,000, my wier stays 2"-3" above bottom. I only open the valve from my skimmer to add flow as my water levels drop if doing an extensive backwash. I put a meter on it and had well over 8000gph gravity flowing through that single 4" pipe.
    I just ordered a baldor motored 1/2 hp 10,500gph pump... im either going to put it after my sieve feeding my ultima and leave the 8500 on my shower,, or im going to put it on my shower and leave the 8500 on my sieve... I wish there was a sieve or other enclosed mechanical prefilter other than a leaf basket so I could pump draw that 10,500 through the 4" line.... a pressure sieve of high capacity or something.

  10. #30
    Sansai
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    Well, if everything works out, I just got a GREAT deal on 3 cetus sieves. I have two 5500 gallon pumps for now. Once I start up my pond I will most likely gravity feed my skimmer (which I put a 4" line to the bottom of my savio) to one sieve with a 5500 pump pumping out of it, and then my main bottom drain with a 4" to another cetus with the other 5500. I hope this will be enough flow to keep any clogs or settlement in these pipe. my BD has a spot where it goes up, then back down... I T'ed a 1 1/2 for air to release. I'm hoping the cetus's can handle as much flow as my 5500's will draw from them. I really wanted an Ultra sieve or two... but for the price I'm getting these 3 Cetus's I couldn't pass it up. Cheers!-Mike

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