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Thread: Just considering....

  1. #1
    MCA
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    Just considering....

    Today our 10,000 pond system filtration is:

    BD1 --> US3 sieve --> 8500 pump -->EA 50watt UV --> pond
    BD2 --> US3 sieve --> 8500 pump -->EA 50watt UV --> pond
    Skimmer --> Wave aqua pump -->bakki shower --> pond


    So here is what I am considering:
    BD1 --> US3 sieve --> large pump -->bakki shower --> pond
    BD2 --> US3 sieve --> same large pump as BD1 -->same bakki shower as BD1 --> pond
    Skimmer --> same sieve as BD2 --> same large pump as BD1 -->same bakki shower as BD1 --> pond

    Basically this would be removing the two bead filters, two EA UVs and the 3 current pumps. The new design would depend 100% on sieves for mechanical stage and on my double wide bakki shower for bio. The shower flow rate would be in the 10,000 gph range. The major capital outlay for this is the new large pump and the PVC pipe work. I would then have the bead filters, UVs and pumps for sale on the used market in the spring.

    I would guess the two major candidates for a 10,000 range pump would be a ESBB 10500 in the $600 range....and a Flow Friend in the $2300 range.

    What are you thoughts and ideas on this? Don't worry, I have have heard most everything twice by now. Yes one day it would be nice to replace the two sieves with a RDF.....but until my lottery ticket is a big winner........
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  2. #2
    MCA
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    I have taken the next incremental step. I replaced the US3 sieve screens that were 300 micro with 200 micron units. I can definitely see the difference in how much fine algae and other detritus the screens are capturing. I would suggest an sieve owner consider using 200micron screens. They may be the next best thing to an RDF.

    Also consider that two sieves, 200 micro screens, and any optional lids can move your investment into RDF price ranges. Depending on the pond size and your future plans, a RDF could be a better long term mechanical stage.

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    Hi Michael. How long have you had the new screen in? I'm thinking once been the biofilm gets fully established, you will get even greater clarity. Lots to be said about biofilm's ability to capture and process fines.

    I have heard of similar reports where the user wanted greater fines removal and replaced with a 200 or even 100 micron screen. Some reported the 100 micron to clog too quickly, posing a maintenance issue. Others have reported good success using 200 micron, so I'm In the camp that feels 200 micron is a good size screen for ponds.

  4. #4
    MCA
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    The new screens have been in around 12 days. I think you are correct about 200micron being a sweet spot as a film forms. Years ago when I had Answer units that had 100micron screens they had to be cleaned periodically or the screens would get close to clogging from film.

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    Jumbo Appliance Guy's Avatar
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    Hey Michael- any updates?

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    MCA
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    Am amazed at how much more algae...the fine stuff...is being collected. I think you could run this output over any ceramic media and not have much problem with blocking the top layer of the media. I have bypassed the shower for the winter and will soon start the shower rebuild. It may be the first week of March before I have the revised shower ready. The output from the 2 US3 units will go to the shower. The skimmer will feed one Aquadyne 4.4. That output will go to the TPRs. So I will have one Aquadyne 4.4 for resale come spring.

  7. #7
    MCA
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    Did more research into showers and media choices.

    Plan A
    For a Bakki House Shower to be the main/sole bio filter for a 10,000 gallon pond, I considered that in the UK many users of bakki showers use a double wide Momotaro shower stack of 4 trays that are each 1000mm x 600mm x 300mm. Into each tray they put 5 of the 10kg boxes of BHM. So that is 20 boxes (at £150 per box) for a media cost of £3,000 ($4,500). There there is the cost of shower trays of around £1,300 ($1,950). To filter a 10,000 gallon pond with a 4 tier shower you need to pump lots of water, via 3" pipe, to the top of the shower at least 4' above pond water level to allow for gravity return. My 4 tier shower has trays that are 2' x 3' and are roughly the same capacity as the Momotaro double wide units. Currently I have around half of each of the 4 trays filled. I do have some more BHM in storage that I can add. But to fill the trays I would need around 8 additional boxes of BHM. I have seen the 10kg boxes for sale in the USA for $225 each. So I would have to spend around $1800 more to "fill 'er up". Thank goodness I already own the trays. And of course I have to pump water to the top tray at ~4'.


    Plan B
    Do a my own version of a single tray shower for less than $500 in materials ( welded plastics). The shower outer box would be is 24" x 24" x 48". Inside it would be smaller media cage that would be 18" x 20" x 44" with a media capacity of 9.16 cubic feet. Above the main shower box would be a water distribution box that would be 24" x 6" x 48". If you look at the info from Cermedia in the States you will see that they say a cubic foot of their MP2C cubes can filter 1,500-2,000 gallons. So I pick the conservative number of 1,500 gallons, divide that into the 10,000 gallon pond capacity and get 6.66 cubic feet. As it happens, Cermedia packages MP2C in 7 cubic feet packages that you can get for around $1,000. Should I want to add more media, the media cage in the shower could handle 2 more cubic feet. So the cost for the shower box and media should be in the $1,500 range. A side benefit is that with this arrangement I would only have to pump water around 2.5" to the water distribution box.

    If I do go with Plan B, I will have my stainless shower stack and BHM for sale. That could pay for Plan B.

    What say ye?

  8. #8
    MCA
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    I decided to go with Plan C:

    Skimmer--->8500 pump-->beadfilter-->2 55watt UVs-->TPRs-->pond
    2 BDs-->2 UltraSieveIII (200micron screen)-->1 Flowfriend pump-->MP2C shower stack-->pond

    Sold off and delivered all my Bakki House Media yesterday. I will replace the 4 stainless trays of BHM with 2 stainless trays of Cermedia each containing 4 cubic feet of MP2C. I will use a water distribution box above the top tray to gently and evenly spread out the water. By dropping the shower height from 4 to 2 trays I should also be able to drop my pump rpm by 150-200 and save a around 100 watts. I hope to have the shower cleaned, restacked, and fired up by March 1st. That is of course can change depending on weather and other independent variables.

    In this hobby there are always independent variables.

  9. #9
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    The shower is restocked with two trays. Each tray has 4 cubic feed of MP2C. Next step is the plumbing of the filter pit to supply the stack with ~10,000gph from the two sieves. With luck, I can get that all done before heading to CFKS.

    Someone on The Pond Forum asked if I had extra shower trays to sell. My reply:
    My shower stack came with 5 trays and I only previously used 4. So I now have 3 trays that can go up for sale. Each tray is 2'x'3'x1 and flairs out 2" at the top. The bottoms of the tray are open expanded metal. Both the walls and expanded floor are 316 stainless steel. The legs are 1" square stainless tubing with a 1/2" stainless nut welded on one end and a 1/2" stainless bolt welded on the other end with the threads exposed. I would sell the 3 trays and two sets of legs for $750. That is about what I have in them. I don't want to sell only 1 or 2 trays.

    Let the shower restacking begin...

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