UV - best turned off at night? - Page 2 - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

koiczar · 06-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiky

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I think I should mention that the UV I am using is the fluorescent type, mostly used in Japan? I put it in the settling chamber, about 5 to 10cm above water level. It last for 6 months, when I replace it with new one. So far the result has been quite excellent.

There seems to be a little misunderstanding here - just to clarify(no pun intended) - The Japanese use a totally different type of UV light than Westerners do. They look more like an aquarium hood that they place over the settlement chamber. Their philosophy is that it kills a lot of the bad bacteria that have already started to break down the waste by the time it travels through the plumbing from the bottom drains. That way, they are reducing the load on the rest of the filtration. Kiky is doing it the way the Japanese do, not the way we here in the West do. Here, the UV is housed in a 2" pipe and the bulb is placed within a quartz sleeve for protection. The Japanese version has nothing to do with the plumbing within your system. That's why their's work better than ours. Those of you who have been fortunate to visit Japan know exactly what I'm talking about here. The rest of you can only try to get a picture. Maybe Kiky could provide a picture of his set-up or someone else with a pic of a breeder's pond set-up in Japan.

dick benbow · 06-08-2006

the use of UV is all about respect. If you want your filter to be bombarded with everything in the water column, then do as the westerners and put it after the filters before it enters the pond. That way the koi get all the clean water (LOL)

or if you prefer you can kill stuff before it enters the filter system and allow the good baceria housed there to prosper and allow the over colonization to spread into the pond. ( where 10 % of your filtration is housed )

as already stated continuous running of the UV is best for the longivety of the bulb. Two summer seasons is about all you can ever expect out of one.

UV's are also excellent for those who wish to eliminate parasites in the spring and fall as the water temps run thru the 50's and reproduction is triggered.

My mentality has always been if a pond is properly filtered and maintained you don't need one to maintain water clarity. But here in the NW the springs are long and lingering with cool rains and temps and then when it bursts into instant sun and heat in what seems like overnight. That lag time it takes to have a filter "catch up " is aided with the UV....

Steve Nguyen · 06-08-2006

I believe similar application can be applied to US settling tank. since the uv transformer already a separate unit, I believe with a little creativity we can mount the quartz sleeve and lamp inside the settling tank. in fact, I plan to do this on my new pond to see if uv performs any differently. one thing I know for sure is that the freaking 2" pipe with uv lamp reduces the water flowing rate.

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by koiczar

There seems to be a little misunderstanding here - just to clarify(no pun intended) - The Japanese use a totally different type of UV light than Westerners do. They look more like an aquarium hood that they place over the settlement chamber. Their philosophy is that it kills a lot of the bad bacteria that have already started to break down the waste by the time it travels through the plumbing from the bottom drains. That way, they are reducing the load on the rest of the filtration. Kiky is doing it the way the Japanese do, not the way we here in the West do. Here, the UV is housed in a 2" pipe and the bulb is placed within a quartz sleeve for protection. The Japanese version has nothing to do with the plumbing within your system. That's why their's work better than ours. Those of you who have been fortunate to visit Japan know exactly what I'm talking about here. The rest of you can only try to get a picture. Maybe Kiky could provide a picture of his set-up or someone else with a pic of a breeder's pond set-up in Japan.

johnsmith · 06-08-2006

Right, unfortunately those 'hang over the water' UV lights can't work! They are too far away from the water's surface. The kill rate for UV at these wattages is within a cm distance not 6-8 or 10 inches! And those UV rays certainly can't penetrate the water column! The UV over a sump? A definite mis-fire. JR

kiky · 06-08-2006

Thanks to Koiczar for describing the difference of the types of UV. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of my set up. I'll try to have a photo tomorrow, and let you all see.

Rich L · 06-09-2006

UV bulbs have a predictable deterioration of about 8000 hours for almost all bulbs. This happens to be the close to the number of hours in a year but down time will extend the 8000 hours longer. Some fixture manufacturers claim more, but I haven’t bothered to check to see if it’s because of improvements in bulb design or just ‘improved’ specks. The manufacturer 8000-hour bulb life statement is developed from the accepted standard level of 80% of a new bulb output unless their posted specks say otherwise.

On the green water. With adequate filtration and proper stocking, the biofilter and reasonable shading should be able to handle spring startups after the two or three years it takes the filter to mature. That should happen sooner for all but the late spring, early summer months so the bulb should be able to be turned off most of the year, extending bulb life accordingly.

254nm germicidal light deteriorates rapidly in the first few inches of water so a fixture over a sump fixture would have to be much larger, to be as effective, costing more to replace bulbs and operate at a time we should be looking for ways to conserve energy. The fixtures most of us use allow more water to come within a 1" range of the bulb which allows for a very intense exposure as long as the sleeves are clean and the suggested life is respected.

I install UV fixtures at the end of the filter string so the quartz tube won’t foul as fast. Still, the tube fouls quickly as the slime coating develops and should be wiped quarterly if you want maximum output.

Practically, we seldom install a fixture that isn’t overrated for our needs to eliminate the pea soup. That reduces the effect of tube coating and aging so the bulb life can be extended in our ponds. The UV levels we use aren’t powerful enough to kill most bacteria and aren’t nearly enough to impact parasites. They’re only installed to keep our water clear.

It all boils down to installing a fixture rated for the pond, cleaning the quartz sleeve regularly and replacing the bulb when it gets old.

Steve Nguyen · 06-09-2006

why not?? dip the UV lamp in the water to max expose of uv light rays. see pix

Steve

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsmith

Right, unfortunately those 'hang over the water' UV lights can't work! They are too far away from the water's surface. The kill rate for UV at these wattages is within a cm distance not 6-8 or 10 inches! And those UV rays certainly can't penetrate the water column! The UV over a sump? A definite mis-fire. JR

kiky · 06-09-2006

This the photo of my UV set up set up as promised. Hope they are clear enough.

kiky · 06-09-2006

As can be seen from the photos, my filter system are covered by wooden panels. What I did was just raised the wood that is about in the middle of the vortex, and place the UV there, attaching it to the wood. It is about 5 to 10 cm above water level. The painted white box is the housing. Since the UV is situated above the pipe out to next chamber, I believe almost 100% of the water is 'screen' by theUV light. Hence it is very effective.

jnorth · 06-11-2006

Moved to Pond Construction.

06-09-2006	#18 (permalink)
kiky Sansai Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: indonesia Posts: 242	This the photo of my UV set up set up as promised. Hope they are clear enough. Attached Thumbnails

06-11-2006	#20 (permalink)
jnorth Jumbo Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: VA Posts: 2,070	Moved to Pond Construction. __________________ Koi-Unit My personal koi page Updated 7/8/07 ZNA Potomac

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06-08-2006	#12 (permalink)
dick benbow Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 4,164	the use of UV is all about respect. If you want your filter to be bombarded with everything in the water column, then do as the westerners and put it after the filters before it enters the pond. That way the koi get all the clean water (LOL) or if you prefer you can kill stuff before it enters the filter system and allow the good baceria housed there to prosper and allow the over colonization to spread into the pond. ( where 10 % of your filtration is housed ) as already stated continuous running of the UV is best for the longivety of the bulb. Two summer seasons is about all you can ever expect out of one. UV's are also excellent for those who wish to eliminate parasites in the spring and fall as the water temps run thru the 50's and reproduction is triggered. My mentality has always been if a pond is properly filtered and maintained you don't need one to maintain water clarity. But here in the NW the springs are long and lingering with cool rains and temps and then when it bursts into instant sun and heat in what seems like overnight. That lag time it takes to have a filter "catch up " is aided with the UV....

06-08-2006	#14 (permalink)
johnsmith Tategoi Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 304	Right, unfortunately those 'hang over the water' UV lights can't work! They are too far away from the water's surface. The kill rate for UV at these wattages is within a cm distance not 6-8 or 10 inches! And those UV rays certainly can't penetrate the water column! The UV over a sump? A definite mis-fire. JR

06-08-2006	#15 (permalink)
kiky Sansai Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: indonesia Posts: 242	Thanks to Koiczar for describing the difference of the types of UV. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of my set up. I'll try to have a photo tomorrow, and let you all see.

06-09-2006	#16 (permalink)
Rich L Sansai Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 231	UV bulbs have a predictable deterioration of about 8000 hours for almost all bulbs. This happens to be the close to the number of hours in a year but down time will extend the 8000 hours longer. Some fixture manufacturers claim more, but I haven’t bothered to check to see if it’s because of improvements in bulb design or just ‘improved’ specks. The manufacturer 8000-hour bulb life statement is developed from the accepted standard level of 80% of a new bulb output unless their posted specks say otherwise. On the green water. With adequate filtration and proper stocking, the biofilter and reasonable shading should be able to handle spring startups after the two or three years it takes the filter to mature. That should happen sooner for all but the late spring, early summer months so the bulb should be able to be turned off most of the year, extending bulb life accordingly. 254nm germicidal light deteriorates rapidly in the first few inches of water so a fixture over a sump fixture would have to be much larger, to be as effective, costing more to replace bulbs and operate at a time we should be looking for ways to conserve energy. The fixtures most of us use allow more water to come within a 1" range of the bulb which allows for a very intense exposure as long as the sleeves are clean and the suggested life is respected. I install UV fixtures at the end of the filter string so the quartz tube won’t foul as fast. Still, the tube fouls quickly as the slime coating develops and should be wiped quarterly if you want maximum output. Practically, we seldom install a fixture that isn’t overrated for our needs to eliminate the pea soup. That reduces the effect of tube coating and aging so the bulb life can be extended in our ponds. The UV levels we use aren’t powerful enough to kill most bacteria and aren’t nearly enough to impact parasites. They’re only installed to keep our water clear. It all boils down to installing a fixture rated for the pond, cleaning the quartz sleeve regularly and replacing the bulb when it gets old.

06-09-2006	#19 (permalink)
kiky Sansai Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: indonesia Posts: 242	As can be seen from the photos, my filter system are covered by wooden panels. What I did was just raised the wood that is about in the middle of the vortex, and place the UV there, attaching it to the wood. It is about 5 to 10 cm above water level. The painted white box is the housing. Since the UV is situated above the pipe out to next chamber, I believe almost 100% of the water is 'screen' by theUV light. Hence it is very effective.