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Thread: question on japanese mat filter

  1. #1
    Jumbo Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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    question on japanese mat filter

    Hello:

    I noticed that some koi keepers setup their japanese mats evenly stacked with small space in between the sheets while others stack them tightly against one and another, see picture. why do people set them up differently? and which method is better in term of efficiency? would someone please shed some lights on this? thanks!

    Steve
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails question on japanese mat filter-mat-filter-stack.jpg  

  2. #2
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen
    Hello:

    I noticed that some koi keepers setup their japanese mats evenly stacked with small space in between the sheets while others stack them tightly against one and another, see picture. why do people set them up differently? and which method is better in term of efficiency? would someone please shed some lights on this? thanks!

    Steve
    Steve

    Japanese mat needs to be spaced (or striated as it's called), to allow the water to properly flow in and around the mats. This helps raise the oxygen level and create different current movements which help the bacteria colonize it better.

    MATALA MAT is used in a more compressed state. There are different densities of the material (4 all together). If you alternate the blue and grey they will do the same thing as the Jap mat. The only difference is that the matala mat has more cubic feet of area per square foot of surface area than the Jap mat. Now when you combine that with the fact that you are using twice the amount of material, it nearly quadruples your cubic feet of media within a particular footprint. If you have any other questions, feel free to send me a pm. I do this stuff for a living!!

    Mike

  3. #3
    Jumbo Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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    Hi Mike,

    great info! I'm so glad I asked. I went to matalausa.com and got some more info on how to design the filter with matala mats. my friend told me that Japanese mats are best for bio filter but it looks like matala is a better design.

    thank you,

    Steve

  4. #4
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen
    Hi Mike,

    great info! I'm so glad I asked. I went to matalausa.com and got some more info on how to design the filter with matala mats. my friend told me that Japanese mats are best for bio filter but it looks like matala is a better design.

    thank you,

    Steve
    Steve

    Definitely works better for bio-filtration.

    Mike

  5. #5
    Tategoi
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    Hi Steve,

    In the past, open cell foam & other mats were so dense that dead bacteria could cause channeling. Spacing would allow water to move around an obstructed spot and still wet the entire mat just after the obstruction. Many people are still spacing and/or cutting up J-mat, not knowing why, just that someone else said that's the way itís always been done. Japanese mat is very open and hard to channel.

    Matalla isn't better, other than it's more rigid. That rigidity isn't often needed, J-mat is rigid enough. The different densities diminish one of the benefits of J-mat. A denser media will plug easier and there is less oxygen/surface area. If your oxygen is marginal or the water flow ceases, the oxygen will deplete much faster. Donít chase that comment on denser media.

    Not many old timers bother with Matalla. Itís appears to be something thatís more profitable for dealers.

    And J-mat is cheaper.


  6. #6
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Don't forget . . .

    J mat lasts -- matala doesn't.

    And don't ask me for timelines, since I don't have 'em handy.

  7. #7
    Jumbo Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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    from my own experience, J-Mat channel water when compressed stacks (one on top of the other) in barrel prefilter. in term of durability, J-Mat stood up to abuses really well e.g. high pressure water spray, bang on the cement, shake in the pond,...,etc. it hold up very well after two years of beating.

    I have not use Matala but its webpage matalausa.com gave a good explanation of how the product performs or intended design to perform. I wonder if there is webpage that have similar info on J-Mat. I did a search but didn't find any url with such of info.

    I agreed that matala cost a little more but if it performs as described, then it's worth to spend the extra money.

    Steve

    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop
    J mat lasts -- matala doesn't.

    And don't ask me for timelines, since I don't have 'em handy.

  8. #8
    Honmei
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    You are all wrong!!!!!

    Rich,

    Here are the statistic based on a filter chamber of 40"x40"x40". This is a filter tank that has 37 cubic feet of volume.

    A sheet of Grey Matala matting is 1.6 cubic feet and has 171 square feet of surface area per cubic feet. A sheet of Matala matting, grey, therefore has 273.6 square feet of surface area.

    A sheet of J-mat is 2.3 cubic feet and has 120 square feet of surface area per cubic foot. A sheet of J-mat therefore has 277.2 square feet of surface area.

    It will take 23 sheets of Matala matting to fill up that 37 cubic foot filter chamber which gives you a total surface area in that chamber of 6,327 square feet.
    It will take 16 sheets of J-mat to fill up that 37 cubic foot filter chamber which gives you a total surface area in that chamber of 4,435 square feet.

    If you look at retail on both products the 23 sheets of Matala will cost you $1,426.00. The 16 sheets of J-mat will cost you $1,279.00.

    Now lets look at what you get for that.
    With Matala you get 6,327 square feet or surface area, which is a grand total of 22.5 cents a square foot.
    With J-mat you get 4,435 square feet of surface area, which is 28.8 cents a square foot.

    OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! J-mat is MORE EXPENSIVE per square foot of surface area and it takes up more space!!!!! DUHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

    Now with J-mat, if you pack it tightly, it will channel and clog so it needs to be spaced out. This will use up half as many sheets of J-mat. Now you have 8 sheets of J-mat at a cost of $639.50 in that 37 cubic foot chamber. Now you have only 2,217.5 square feet of surface area in that chamber. Do you know what that means. This means you need three 37 cubic foot chambers to equal the surface area that the one chamber of Matala has.
    You old timers need to learn from the new technology.

    Also, there are four densities of Matala matting because they are used for different functions. The black is 62 sq. ft per cubic foot, but still has 92% free volume. The green is 96 sq. ft. per cubic foot, but still has 93% free volume. The blue has 124 sq. ft. per cubic foot, but still has 94% free volume. The grey has 171 sq. ft. per cubic foot, but still has 94% free volume. What does this mean, you ask? It means that no matter what density of Matal matting you use, it WILL NOT clog. All you have to do is shake it out, or pour water through it. Try that with J-Mat.

    Don,

    I think you have your facts backwards, Matala matting is impervious to UV lighting and J-Mat will break down over time in UV light.

    Also Matala has redone there matting and it is now much more flexible.

  9. #9
    Jumbo Steve Nguyen's Avatar
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    Russ,

    thank you for putting things in a perspective. I was thinking doing calculation this morning and let the numbers speak for itself. Glad I took my kids to the movie and let you do the math.

    thanks,

    Steve

  10. #10
    Honmei
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    Hi Steve,
    You are welcome, I just thought some one should speak with the facts in hand about Matala and J-Mat.

    I guess I am trying to just make more money.LOL

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