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Thread: Small/Quarinteen Pond

  1. #1
    Nisai John Bloch's Avatar
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    Small/Quarinteen Pond

    Hello! I decided that I want to move my fish out of doors in the spring (i'm sure they will like it better) and i need to have a smaller pond That I can keep them in untill i finish the larger permanant pond...

    I'm thinking a 5x3x2... It might be a tich large (my fish are only fingerlings now, and I have one 5 incher)... and once my fish go in the main pond, I'll use it as a quarintene pond...

    anywho... What could I use for a pump? I really want it to be as "cost effective" as possible, and will probably be "DIY" ing it for most of the stuff (such as filters.. as soon as I find something that is cylindrical, like a decent sized water jug at walmart or something, I'll just buy 3 or so and make a set of filters) the pond will be gravity fed, and will probably not have a waterfall or fountan, unless such options become cheap....'

    so,

    Tips on an economical pump i could pick up somewhere? it doesnt even have to be a "Koi pond" filter or anything...

    If you could help it would be awesome!
    Tanks!

    Post Script:

    I found this... which I think will be able to turn over the water quick enough... tell me what you think:

    http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/F64AX/Class/Fish+Supplies+Power+Heads/T1/F64AX+0964+0061/EDP/39455/Itemdy00.aspx

  2. #2
    Jumbo jnorth's Avatar
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    That pump would probably work. With your dimensions you will have about a 225 gallon tank. How many koi do you want to put in there? No matter how many you put in I would think that since you will have too many in a smaller then normal space for a long amount of time I would at least double the filtration (probably triple on 225 gallons). My 700 gallon QT has a filter on it that can handle up to 5000 gallons. As for filters you could use big rubbermaid containers or trashcans etc. 3-30 gallon containers is another 90 gallons of water which is a good thing.
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  3. #3
    Nisai John Bloch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnorth View Post
    That pump would probably work. With your dimensions you will have about a 225 gallon tank. How many koi do you want to put in there? No matter how many you put in I would think that since you will have too many in a smaller then normal space for a long amount of time I would at least double the filtration (probably triple on 225 gallons). My 700 gallon QT has a filter on it that can handle up to 5000 gallons. As for filters you could use big rubbermaid containers or trashcans etc. 3-30 gallon containers is another 90 gallons of water which is a good thing.

    Heres the deal...

    I own 4 fish... and at the moment, 3 of them are about 3-4 inches long, and one is about 5-6 inches long...

    my guess is that by spring, they all will have probably doubled in size... so I will have 3, 8 inch fish and one 12 inch fish... thats 36 combined inches to 15 square feet... which comes to a fraction that is 36 over 180 which leaves me a whole lot of space (if my rules are right)

    I have heard that you want about 12 inches of fish to one square foot of water surface... (or something close to that...) wich means I will have plenty more than enough room for them...

    but, they might grow more, and even if they do tripple in size, I will only have 54 inches of fish in a pond that will hold 180 inches...

    I'm going to try and find something cylindrical to use as a filter... (like trash cans, but maybe a bit smaller) and just simple pvc patterns to connect them...

    putting it all together should be rather simple... I just need the pieces...

    also, there is a pump like that on the site that runs up to 782 GPH and is only 36 USD...

    somone else on a different site said that the pump woul clog quick... but I'm going to have plenty of flitration, and it will be gravity fed, so the pump will be last in line...

    I'm also thinking about a skimmer, but I think I can make one myself... I dont think It will be to hard...but maybe I'm wrong...

  4. #4
    Jumbo
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    John-

    You're wrong. About a couple things. Forget inch to surface guidelines.

    You can keep a lot of fish in 225 gallons, but not if you don't do it with intense filtration. Without intense filtration you have about all the fish 200g can handle. This project is where you are going to learn something and this winter is when.

    Learn the construction methods you'll need. Are you using carpentry or masonry for this tank? Figure out how to install a liner, or plaster and waterproof some blocks. Plumbing is a schism for the uninitiated. Try not to buy a lot of stuff that you will kick yourself in the ass about later.

    Solid safe, stable container for the pond.
    Efficient way to flow waste away from the fish, collect it in one spot, remove it daily.
    Some bio filtration.
    Adequate heat and light.
    Water flow and oxygen.

    Bottom drain? Yes.
    Settlement chamber? Yes.
    Barrels for filtration? Probably yes.
    700g or 900g or 1200g pump? Yes.
    Barriers to keep them from jumping out and ending up on the floor. You decide.

    Twice as big next year? Probably not.
    Alive next year? You decide.
    Feed less, filter more.

    Mickey the windowman

  5. #5
    Nisai John Bloch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitten View Post
    John-

    You're wrong. About a couple things. Forget inch to surface guidelines.

    You can keep a lot of fish in 225 gallons, but not if you don't do it with intense filtration. Without intense filtration you have about all the fish 200g can handle. This project is where you are going to learn something and this winter is when.

    Learn the construction methods you'll need. Are you using carpentry or masonry for this tank? Figure out how to install a liner, or plaster and waterproof some blocks. Plumbing is a schism for the uninitiated. Try not to buy a lot of stuff that you will kick yourself in the ass about later.

    Solid safe, stable container for the pond.
    Efficient way to flow waste away from the fish, collect it in one spot, remove it daily.
    Some bio filtration.
    Adequate heat and light.
    Water flow and oxygen.

    Bottom drain? Yes.
    Settlement chamber? Yes.
    Barrels for filtration? Probably yes.
    700g or 900g or 1200g pump? Yes.
    Barriers to keep them from jumping out and ending up on the floor. You decide.

    Twice as big next year? Probably not.
    Alive next year? You decide.
    Feed less, filter more.

    Mickey the windowman
    so, lets be spacific... how many gallons of filtration would you use on a 5x3x2 gravity fed liner pond... how many gph would you make sure your pump is?

  6. #6
    Jumbo
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    225 g with bottom drain? Cool.

    Pond formula would give you a pump at 225 gph, right? For a small tank use double or more. I run my 90g goldfish pond inside with a 700gph, there is head loss through the dumb filter, and I run my 350 g tank with a 700 gph also (2 - 3 ft. head loss only). John, to be specific, you should look for a 500GPH.

    Pond formula for the filters would be 50 - 100 g for open chambers gravity system (25 - 50%). Sounds just like 2 or 3, 30 G barrels, doesn't it? 30G barrels are 28 inches tall I think, so there is maybe a trick to using them on a 24" tall pond, but they are not hard to find for 5 or 10 or 15 bucks each.

    The sticky part comes when you try to apply the formula for settlement chamber to the flow of your pump. Flow of 4 times the volume of the chamber you use for passive mechanical filtration (setttlement) means a 30G chamber can handle only 120GPH. This is why pads and things are used for active separation (straining) instead of passive separation, because it is hard to provide the large passive volume.

    Mickey the windowman

  7. #7
    Nisai John Bloch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitten View Post
    225 g with bottom drain? Cool.

    Pond formula would give you a pump at 225 gph, right? For a small tank use double or more. I run my 90g goldfish pond inside with a 700gph, there is head loss through the dumb filter, and I run my 350 g tank with a 700 gph also (2 - 3 ft. head loss only). John, to be specific, you should look for a 500GPH.

    Pond formula for the filters would be 50 - 100 g for open chambers gravity system (25 - 50%). Sounds just like 2 or 3, 30 G barrels, doesn't it? 30G barrels are 28 inches tall I think, so there is maybe a trick to using them on a 24" tall pond, but they are not hard to find for 5 or 10 or 15 bucks each.

    The sticky part comes when you try to apply the formula for settlement chamber to the flow of your pump. Flow of 4 times the volume of the chamber you use for passive mechanical filtration (setttlement) means a 30G chamber can handle only 120GPH. This is why pads and things are used for active separation (straining) instead of passive separation, because it is hard to provide the large passive volume.

    Mickey the windowman
    so what can I do instead? I would have to have 125 gallon containers for it to work then? what If I have the barrels strain upwards? the inflow would start at the bottom, and run upwards, but strain the muck out with curlers/matting, and the pipe would run out the top of the barrel, and into the bottom of the next? so things are streigned upwards rather than allowed to settle..

    would that work?

  8. #8
    Jumbo
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    Well, Yep John, you want the filters to be upflow. This helps to keep settled waste at the bottom where it can be sucked out when you pull a valve. Do you understand the valve thing?

    The latest and greatest mechanical filter is the Easy, probably patented, developed from some practices Maurice Cox developed, but pretty easy to knock off. After you have built your own you can call it the Sleasy or EZY or fake Easy or whatever you want, be creative. And best? No matts or brushes.

    Kaldnes media named K1 floats. When it is contained in a basket so that it gathers around an exit pipe from the filter chamber, the water flow is fractured and quiet eddies are created in which crap can settle within the media. To clean it, water flow is stopped, air is bubbled through it for agitation, and then the chamber is drained of water, the crap along with it.

    Follow this with an aerated chamber of K1 for bio and you're cooking. A bit more DIY and the pump could send your flow to a shower filter. This system will allow you to feed and grow your fish, though 225g is probably still not enough water for more fish than you have now.

    For design hints you only need to search this and just about every forum.

    HINT- K1 gets EVERYWHERE if you let it.

    Next Hint- Figure out what to do with the humidity before your wife grabs the varmint gun.

    Third hint- 2" is the minimum pipe size. Don't use any 1 1/2" except maybe from the pump to the top of the shower.

    Hint #4- These specific hints may not be best for you.

    Mickey the windowman

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