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Thread: How to Build a Mud Pond

  1. #11
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    koikiller . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by koikiller View Post
    you could post that? but you couldnt post a sentence about mud ponds to help her?
    I could post a sentence about mud ponds but, hmmm, don't think it would be long enough to answer all the questions.

    So maybe Mickey's approach was correct after all . . . again.

    Happy New Year!

  2. #12
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
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    Koicare . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Koicare View Post
    I will keep you updated on my progress - and when I get around to building them - I will take photos and post so you can all see what I am doing! and hopefully they will also be of assistance to someone (if I get this right that is.......)
    Looking forward to seeing your updates.

    And you might use this board's Members List function ( ^ ^ ^ ) to send a Private Message (PM) to EmeraldKoi -- a breeder who has a koi farm there in South Africa. Am sure he could be of great assistance to you!

  3. #13
    Tosai
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    Hey - thank you - much appreciated!

  4. #14
    Jumbo
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    KoiCare-

    Most of the info in that thread of KFG's that you found came from Bekko in Hawaii, Maurice in England and Ranskye in Australia. It is one gem of a thread, but there are others. Just follow Bekko around and you can learn a LOT. His posts on stocking levels and feed rates have helped me get a clearer picture of the interactions in a mudpond. Maurice has built a farm in England with a Momotaro flavor to every aspect of it. He has a banner ad here, Koi-UK. Click away. Ranskye can type longer posts than anyone, ,and just posted pics of his farm last week.

    So 36 years old and 50 KG? At 5'6 that makes you a slim goody. Did I mention I like hippy chicks with pony tails? Oh, did I mention I'm a worn out old dude? Working on pond #6 here because my plans to move to Florida and dig mud ponds got cancelled. The new world economy is hard on us whose fates have been tied to American cars their whole life.

    Care to elaborate on your filtration occupation? Do you use methods we'd be familiar with?

    Mickey the windowman

  5. #15
    Tosai
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    In South Africa we have many different brands of filters etc available - some are locally manufactured and some are imported.

    Among my favorite and most recommended are:
    Vortex's - either with Matala (my personal favorite) or Brushes
    We have stunning Trickle Filters which are filled with 6 blocks of trickle filter media which is specifically designed to allow for maximum O2 and non clogging - it's surface area is also great 390m2 per m3. The media also forces the water to continuosly change direction as it flows through!
    Then of course we have gravity flow and high pressurised bio filters etc.
    And all the other usual devices - UV's, Protein Skimmers, Heaters, etc

    We now have a distributor during the Kaldness range of filters - buy in my experience they are too expensive for the average pond keeper.....

    Currently I have started doing research and testing in Ozone and ORP Systems - but at the moment I am not satisfied that they are entirely safe, unless used at extremely low dosages - and then the efficiency of the Ozone is debatable. What I have found so far (using different ORP Probes) is that the readings can sometimes differ by more than 50mv - 50mv can very well be the difference between fantastic water with a good ORP reading and Nuked fish!!!

    You guys do seem to have more filtration products available to you than us......

  6. #16
    Oyagoi Eugeneg's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Koicare View Post
    Thanks! I will check into that - because we have sooo much water - our land is often swamped with water - I did not consider it ever running out. At the moment it has been raining no stop for the past 4 or 5 days, and everywhere I walk quelches! Thanks for the info! Much appreciated!
    Then I would certainly go for a test hole during dry spell . This will determine whether you can excavate or if too much water a drag line . A pond of 50x100 and 14 ft deep would be simmilar to what I have and would require the removal of about 400 dump trucks . Sometimes clay is needed for fill and you could work something out to help cover costs . As even at $25 per truck you will be looking at least $10000 . This would give you space for about 25 fish over 24in . Love the info too bad I am twice your age
    Regards
    Eugene

  7. #17
    Tosai
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    Thanks Eugene - I will keep you updated!

  8. #18
    Jumbo
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    Morning-

    Pony tails make women so cheery.

    Toronto is a great place for Detroiters to visit, a huge safe city of Euro/cosmo flair. Hi Eugene.

    Around here bass ponds are 7' deep and trout ponds are 15. Everywhere I've been koi production ponds are 4' deep. I've seen a couple farms with small fry ponds, meant to be siened easily and frequently, but more usual is that all ponds are about the same size and depth.

    That is for the making and growing of koi. Keeping champions would be a different approach and a pond like Eugene describes is more in keeping with the goals of safety, robust health and growth of mature, large, prized fish. Still way riskier than a good hobbiest's pond. A stretch of dark, rainy days after some scorching weather and you could lose every fish. The rewards? Duh. Bigazz fish.

    The methods I've seen used do not require removal of soil. Just moving it costs plenty. If you excavate a foot of soil and push it to the perimeters you can build a four foot deep pond easily. Is the soil a retentive clay at one foot below surface? Then you are done. Push some of that around to form a foot thick layer and start running water. Because most of the pond is above water you are able to drain it, mostly, without pumping and you can leave it dry for the winter season. If you don't have clay based soil you will require a different plan.

    This is what has been shared with me as wisdom- Get the big waterwell right away. (borehole?)

    Johannnesburg is temperate, four season, mild, varied terrain? How good is my inattentive impression?

    Mickey the windowman

  9. #19
    Tosai
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    Johannesburg is four seasoned - but we rally only look at 2 - Summer and Winter - we do not really have proper Springs and Autumns - they go very quickly. Our Winters are mostly at the worst -2 or -3 degrees celcius (at night) temps during the day are anywhere for 8 - 10 degrees celcius - so they are mild!

    A borehole might be like what you guys call wells - it is a shaft which is dug into the ground - ours is about 70 meters down, they install a long cylindrical pump in there and it pumps water out of ground! Ours pumps enough water to fill a 10 litre bucket in 6,6 seconds - so if I did the math right that would be about 10 gallons a minute?

    On the soil issue - our soil is varied - first we have alayer of topsoil probably about 30 - 40cm thick - then you hit the clay for about 60 - 70cm, and then you hit shale!!! I am not really sure what shale is - it might be clay which has compacted and formed into thin sheets of rock, or a rockish type material - but all I remember is that each pond we dug here was a major nightmare in sealing - not in terms of keeping the water in - but rather keeping the water out! We had to dig a trench deeper than the ponds so that the water would go there until we had dried and sealed the concrete!

    If I go above the ground - which would be preferable then I do not have to get rid of the soil - I would probably have to either line the sides of the pond because of the top soil - or I would have to seal the entire pond with a bentonite. We have a variety of bentonite here - one which they call "Envirobent" (which they recommend for sealing of dams - as it swells to something ginormous!) - my only issue with it is that it has a pH of 10,5 (and I do not know enough to know whether that would be a problem and affect the pH of the pond to 10,5??????? and they have a "Calcium Bentonite" which they say does also swell, but not as much as the envirobent - it is more a water conditioner - so then the pond might leak? I am thinking about getting a bag of the envirobent and running a little test to see how much it affects the water (ie: 50 litre bucket - put envirobent in at the bottom) and test the water daily) - but I am not sure if this would be a waste of time on such a small test, and without the exact conditions - and provide inaccurate results???

    There is sooooo much more to this than I originally thought - this has been a bit of a wake call for me - but at least I know what I am in for, and can try and do it right from the begining.

    Thanks again guys for all your help - I really do appreciate it. About 2 weeks ago I was ready to get the TLB's in - now I am doing a lot more research!!!!

  10. #20
    Oyagoi Sangreaal's Avatar
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    Smile Welcome to KoiBito Pond

    Quote Originally Posted by Koicare View Post
    Ok you too!!! No need to fight!
    Sorry Mitten - I have updated my profile.
    I am female - brunette, blue eyes, 5'6", 50kg's - I have quiet a few ponds already - all concrete! I have been doing koi for the last 7 years!
    I did look up there - and I found a massive thread from kfg - printed it out and now I am studying it carefully. I still does not answer all my questions, but 95% of them! So thank you for your help - much appreciated.
    I will keep you updated on my progress - and when I get around to building them - I will take photos and post so you can all see what I am doing! and hopefully they will also be of assistance to someone (if I get this right that is.......)
    You're a little 8 stone girly girl, Koicare? How cool! We're a bit bigger (10 stone here), but put you and Judy (kfg) and I together and we'll be the Charmed Ones of mud ponds. *LOL*

    Seriously, I find it truly amazing that there are three of us ladies out digging in the mud--I'm building this coming spring and Judy took the leap back in 2005, so she's ahead of us by a couple of years. Interesting thread, KFG's, and I've just started one (Seedstart of Persimmon Pond) that will really start getting fluffed up come dryer weather.

    Do you have any pictures of your land and potential pond sites? It would be interesting to see what you have to work with property-wise.

    Marie
    Marie

    http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

    "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
    paints his own nature into his pictures."
    --Henry Ward Beecher

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