Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 33

Thread: liner vs granite vs cinder blocks

  1. #21
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,744
    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
    I have a dumb question. Is fiberglass permanent?
    Russ, If it is done correctly it "should" be permanent.

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  2. #22
    Jumbo Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    994
    just thinking out loud, I think most would love to have their pond spray with polyurea but how many actually can afford the high cost or willing to dish out that amount of money. the overall cost is too high that it exclude a big group of pond owners. just curious if there is a stat showing what percentage of new ponds build with polyurea liner.

    Steve

    Quote Originally Posted by kent wallace View Post
    Fiberglass is also very expensive and labor intensive when done correctly. The best way to do a liner type pond at this point is with polyurea. You can still just do the "retaining wall" type of construction as you would with liner with a geotextile layer over the dirt areas and the poly sprayed over it all at the same time. Fiberglass has very little flexibility and can flake or crack over the long haul. Polyurea done correctly will literally last a lifetime with an elasticity of 400% to 700%.

  3. #23
    Jumbo Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    994
    realizing that structure to support around the pond is a must for liner pond but curious if soil condition has more to do with the problem. in my area, it's all clay. one would need a jack hammer to dig the hole.

    Steve


    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Liner pond w/o structure

  4. #24
    Oyagoi woodyaht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Stockton,Ca.
    Posts
    1,471
    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
    I have a dumb question. Is fiberglass permanent?
    It depends on how it's done. Thickness is the key. Laying a layer of "surfboard cloth" down and slopping some resin around is what tons of folks consider to be fiberglassed. If a guy layed down 1/4 - 1/2" of glass, the pond would survive a nuclear bomb, well maybe . You gotta remember that fiberglass came into boats in the late 50's and early 60's. Most of those boats built back then are still floating and very sound in their construction. Today they build boats out of glass in the area of 150' -200' weighing hundreds of tons and they can survive gail force storms out in the ocean.

    Glass work can be expensive as Kent stated, but if you can find the right guy(s) that knows what they're doing it can be done for the same/similar price as polyurea, and be a structure as well. But as with everything in life there's a ton more people that say they can provide a service and claim to do a good job, but in reality finding someone to do fiberglass right is like finding a needle in a hay stack. Finding someone that knows what materials are available and how to use them is the biggest problem. Most guys just want to do as little as possible so they don't have to spend very much on materials and more $$$$ goes in their pocket, which is where I see failures happening giving fiberglass a bad name. I have heard pond builders talk of going in and "pealing glass out of a old structure, it didn't stick, there was cracks, etc" If you lay enough glass down it won't fail, and the glass becomes the structure if the substrate fails.

    Here's a example. In the late 80's is when I got my start on boats. Marine surveyors have to survey boats every so often as required by insurance companies or when a boat is bought or sold. When some boats are made, they have wood fiberglassed into the hull for rigidity and added strength. The wood would rot over time, the surveyors would find the "hollow" sounding spots in the boats hull/structure, and my job was to fix it. I would sometimes gut the boat down to a bare hull on the inside because the rot was so bad. But, lots of these boats were still being used all the time, and even with the wood rotted away, they still functioned just fine. Granted I wouldn't want to take the boat out into a heavy storm in the ocean, but for going up and down the river they still functioned.

    My pond has No structure around it. We dug the hole, stood 1/2" 'Hardibacker' cement board up for walls, stapled 18"w aluminum roof flashing into the corners to make the radius's as well as to the dirt floor, and layed down 2 layers of very strong/expensive cloth which 2 layers adds up to a thickness of about 1/8". Once I was done glassing and gelcoating, I filled the pond up with water not having any backfill around the walls, and it held water just fine overnight. I wouldn't recommend doing this, but it was my test.
    I drained the pond, backfilled the walls with dirt, re-filled, and tossed the fish in. My pond from digging to tossing fish in took 2 weeks with one of the weeks getting rained out.

    To me the best thing about glass, is if it does fail, it is very easily repaired, and can be repaired 30yrs down the road without having to re-do the whole thing.
    “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed” Adolf Hitler


    Chris~

  5. #25
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,744
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
    realizing that structure to support around the pond is a must for liner pond but curious if soil condition has more to do with the problem. in my area, it's all clay. one would need a jack hammer to dig the hole.

    Steve

    Steve,
    Get out the jack hammer and get some of that rock hard clay and put it into a bucket of water and see how rock hard it really is (isn't). Once the the hole is down to tthat virgin soil, there is now a path for moisture to follow (outside of the liner) and what was once "raock had" becomes "mus."

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  6. #26
    Oyagoi koiczar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    2,352
    Quote Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
    Steve,
    Get out the jack hammer and get some of that rock hard clay and put it into a bucket of water and see how rock hard it really is (isn't). Once the the hole is down to tthat virgin soil, there is now a path for moisture to follow (outside of the liner) and what was once "raock had" becomes "mus."

    Steve
    Steve N

    This is why I tried to talk you out of liner and into doing gunite. After seeing this pond site, I would NOT attempt a liner for this application, PERIOD!

    Mike

  7. #27
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Berkeley, California
    Posts
    148
    I totally agree with Steve but there are exceptions. My liner pond is 3-4 years old and has no support structure. My pond is 8' x 10' x 5' accept one corner 4' deep because I hit a serious boulder. After a week with a large pick ax, I gave up on my perfect rectangle. So with the boulder I figure the pond is 2700-2800 gallons because of the corner of the pond is not 5' deep. I dug the pond on my own and let me tell you it is pure blue clay with some mixed in rocks. I have had no issues with it but I doubt many other people actually have a pond sitting on actual bed rock and clay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
    realizing that structure to support around the pond is a must for liner pond but curious if soil condition has more to do with the problem. in my area, it's all clay. one would need a jack hammer to dig the hole.

    Steve

  8. #28
    Jumbo Steve Nguyen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    994
    Mike,

    Well. I need a referral for someone who can do the gunite? else, it'll be cinder blocks walls and liner. I think the owner is getting an estimate for blocks walls. I was really disappointed that it didn't work out. I would prefer to have you complete the whole thing.

    Steve

    Quote Originally Posted by koiczar View Post
    Steve N

    This is why I tried to talk you out of liner and into doing gunite. After seeing this pond site, I would NOT attempt a liner for this application, PERIOD!

    Mike

  9. #29
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Berkeley, California
    Posts
    148
    Don't get me wrong I would like to go with a new gunite pond, but I need to sell a lot of paintings before I have the money for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Turtle View Post
    I totally agree with Steve but there are exceptions. My liner pond is 3-4 years old and has no support structure. My pond is 8' x 10' x 5' accept one corner 4' deep because I hit a serious boulder. After a week with a large pick ax, I gave up on my perfect rectangle. So with the boulder I figure the pond is 2700-2800 gallons because of the corner of the pond is not 5' deep. I dug the pond on my own and let me tell you it is pure blue clay with some mixed in rocks. I have had no issues with it but I doubt many other people actually have a pond sitting on actual bed rock and clay.

  10. #30
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Martinez,CA
    Posts
    4,611
    Quote Originally Posted by Cody Turtle View Post
    Don't get me wrong I would like to go with a new gunite pond, but I need to sell a lot of paintings before I have the money for it.
    Or you could just raise your prices and hope for the best.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. need a liner
    By jimfish98 in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-21-2012, 07:31 PM
  2. Bulkheads on a liner
    By bigred in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-23-2011, 01:11 PM
  3. New Pond Design: Blocks and Liner?
    By KoiKisses in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 12-03-2009, 12:55 AM
  4. Adding liner to your existing liner?
    By bigred in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-09-2006, 02:40 PM
  5. pond liner
    By miztahphong in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-28-2005, 02:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com