hire a builder to do a 10,000 gal polyurea/gunite pond for $35k ?

[Russell Peters]

Originally Posted by kent wallace

It would depend on a lot of things. The level of quality you expect, the type of filtration and plumbing, raised or inground, edge treatment, waterfall or more formal with little or no falls, sealing surface to line the shotcrete with, type of prefiltration, system for dischage water to landscape or sewer, aesthetics etc.
The hole is only worth about $500.00 to $1500.00 depending on accessability.
$35.000 for the entire project, turn key, from a qualified professional pond builder is way low.
Basics maybe but not the whole package.

Hi Kent, the question is can it be done for $35,000 if the hole is already dug and there is not filtration. I think $35,000 is too much for that but, if it included the hole and filtration it may be low depending on the set up.

[kent wallace]

I missed the "without filtration" so with that in mind then maybe yes but probably not. Around here the pool company would supply the hole, rebar, shotcrete and electrical. For a pond that size without the hole $500.00 to $1500,00 so we'll say $1000,00 that leaves $34,000.
The bid from the pool company would be $20,000 to $25,000 with the price of conctrete today at over $100,00/cu yd. Say $22.500. That leaves $11,500.
Approximately 800 sq ft of polyurea at $10.00/sq ft is $8,000 depending on prep. Now we're down to $3,500.
Two bottom drains, two skimmers and two midwater drains approximately $1,150.00.
TPR's how many? Say 6 depending on type $150.00 to $400.00. The type used will also have an impact on the add on pricing from the polyurea sprayer. Some they charge to deal with and some they don't. Now we're about $2000.00 away.
Who's doing the plumbing and layout? There is labor there and some shotcrete applicators won't shoot over anything that's not installed by a licensed "pool" plumber. If not you can do it yourself or hire someone who knows pond plumbing to do it. Pick that expense yourself.
On top of that any surface coating requires prep. The shotcrete can only be finnished to a point and all the detail finnishing must be done by someone. This can be labor intensive if not handled properly and is still another expense and will effect the price of the poly.
Who's managing the project, in charge of the layout and making sure each person on the job is doing it correctly. If it's you you'll need to know about all of those trades yourself so you end up with a pond and not a pool or spa. There might be an expense there.
If it's permitted by the local "powers that be" you have to make them happy along the way to get signed off and all they have to go by are pool specs so you need someone there that can handle them.
It would be very close but handing it over to a professional who has to make a living along the way it would be tough. If you were going to handle all the subs yourself and felt you could manage all the details it might be possible but the question was by a "professional".
The "hole" is the least expensive part of the project.

[dick benbow]

I think it helps folks to see what current costs are, and yes they vary from place to place.

I think what's important to keep in mind is that so much of our design depends on local weather, types of soil, purpose for the pond, stocking levels
etc that it really is hard to nail down an exact cost without going over a bid
with someone like Kent or Russ. I think once you do that and realize that a hole and shell are nice, but the priority should be on the filtration and degree of fish ( high show/pond?) and then you can back down the size of the pond
to budget without compromising the heart of your system and that is filtration. Then after you have your size of pond you can figure stocking levels based on the purpose/grow/finish etc.

Over the years I have cut my stocking rate from the early years of 22 koi of varying size to just 8. I strongly believe less is more when it comes to stocking not filtration....

[RookieKoiGuy]

What kind of filteration/pumps/UV do you have or are going to get?

Tom

[kent wallace]

I would have to agree with Dick on the filtration. The type of construction method is secondary to filtration and circulation.

If we back up a little, determine whether the shell needs to be one solid piece or not, depending on the nature of the soil and the posibility of hydraulicing, we might save some money.
If the concrete shell does not have to cover the floor, only the perimeter walls and drains need to be in concrete. This is the way I do EPDM. Eliminate the cost of the entire floor in concrete which is just under 45% of the shell and cover the floor area in geotextile with the entire structure shot in polyurea there could be some significant savings. The wall doesn't have to be shotcrete but can be formed and poured or built as a footer with block.

[kent wallace]

Another system could be a poured floor or just the footing with foam blocks and rebar for the walls and the blocks poured with concrete.

[moikoi]

Originally Posted by kent wallace

Another system could be a poured floor or just the footing with foam blocks and rebar for the walls and the blocks poured with concrete.

how much saving by going this route?

[Flounder]

I have to agree w/ Steve on the pricing here in Texas. I had a pool company dig the hole, install the rebar, shoot the gunite & install the electric for the 13,000g pond and filter pit of 8'x12' for way, way less than 10g. This included 2 skimmers, 2 underwater lights & a 6' wide waterfall.

Plumbing and filtration were done by yours truly w/ 2 ABD, tprs, Nexi system.

Must be Cali where everything is overpriced.

[kent wallace]

These kinds of things are very regional specific but the numbers I quoted are todays numbers and concrete and energy prices have gone up a lot in the last two years everywhere. I just completed a 13,000 gal project in Denver and the shell and rebar after the hole was dug was about $25,000 I believe.

As far as the foam block construction you'd have to see what brands of ICF (insulated concrete forms) are available in your area and there are some that are more polyurea friendly than others.

[Russell Peters]

Originally Posted by kent wallace

Another system could be a poured floor or just the footing with foam blocks and rebar for the walls and the blocks poured with concrete.

This is actually a good idea. I have done foundations on homes with the foam block system. They are really simple to set up and if you are in a cold environment your insulation is built right in.