water pumps comparisons

[Rich L]

High Steve,

The reason the pump draws less power while it puts out more water is that, as you mentioned, the impellor is designed for a lower head. It won't be more efficient motor HP to water HP.

It's still a good move forward if the rest of the filter system is designed to work at that lower head. Luke, on Koishack is developing a propellor driven pump to work inthat area too but so, while it's way more efficient, it's very expensive and hard to find. If your pump is a big step forward for conventional ponds as long as the builder understands how to design pond plumbing systems properly.

What's the web address of the company. I'd like to look at the design curve and such.

You didn't mention the type pump, so I'm assuming it's a centrifugal pump.

[Drew A.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rich L High Steve, The reason the pump draws less power while it puts out more water is that, as you mentioned, the impellor is designed for a lower head. It won't be more efficient motor HP to water HP. It's still a good move forward if the rest of the filter system is designed to work at that lower head. Luke, on Koishack is developing a propellor driven pump to work inthat area too but so, while it's way more efficient, it's very expensive and hard to find. If your pump is a big step forward for conventional ponds as long as the builder understands how to design pond plumbing systems properly. What's the web address of the company. I'd like to look at the design curve and such. You didn't mention the type pump, so I'm assuming it's a centrifugal pump.

I was also looking for the site... Googled "Sure Pro Pumps", this came up..... http://www.horizononline.com/products/pdf/386/hsp3500.pdf

[Steve Nguyen]

Mike,

it's for a friend who is very new to the hobby and potential zna club member. Besides, doing this kind of research is a huge benefit for my future dream pond.

Steve

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar Steve The Evolution ESS pumps can also be plumbed to 2 1/2" pipe. The unions are made so the 2" pipe fits INSIDE the fitting and the 2 1/2" pipe fits on the OUTSIDE. The ESS 5200 is a 1/4hp and pumps 5200gph @ 5' head and uses 300 watts at full load amperage. The ESS 6400 is a 1/3hp and pumps 6400gph @ 5' head and uses 368 watts at full load amps. Once under a small load, the wattage will reduce slightly for better efficiency. If you place a Lim Dragon and an Evolution Series ESS pump side by side with no decals on it, you will not be able to tell which is which. Still, for the pond you want to use these for, this will be the best bang for your customer's buck! JMHO Mike

[Rich L]

Thanks Drew,

It looks fine. The curves are a little strange so I can't come close to guessing where the most efficient spot is. Usually it's a little above 1/2 flow. The pumps best efficiency point (B.E.P.) is between 80% and 85% of the shut off head. At this point there is little to no radial thrust on the impeller. Also the "power in" is closest to the "power out".

That's why I tell people that the maximum flow should not be used to select a pump. It has to do with the volute relative to the rotation speed, usually around 1800 RPM for our stuff. (As low as 1725 at full load.) I have to say that so no one can say I wasn’t accurate as Russ did on my post “Can anyone say algae. I was joking Russ but I doubt you care.

Steve is running some of his at maximum flow and things seem to be running fine.

I looked up the motor on the motor manufacturer’s site and couldn’t find them at the lower power ratings. The larger were running at 65 – 70% eff. That’s much lower than I would expect but Steve’s operation shows an efficient pump. Curious!

If I had a use for one soon, I'd get one just to see how it worked out. The power consumption Steve is posting looks very good.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rich L I have to say that so no one can say I wasn’t accurate as Russ did on my post “Can anyone say algae. I was joking Russ but I doubt you care.

Hey, you got it right, I could care less.

[Birdman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Drew A. I was also looking for the site... Googled "Sure Pro Pumps", this came up..... http://www.horizononline.com/products/pdf/386/hsp3500.pdf

That is an old out dated curve and pictures. Horizon hasn't up dated any of their web stuff. Here's some current info.

[Rich L]

Much better, But still, the sweet spot would work out to about 3000 GPH. My experience is with much larger pumps but I am used to seeing the BEP just before the knee, about 4200 GPH.

Looks good.

You have a couple of them running at full flow (almost zero head) Did you check them for heat back when the weather was warmer? I don't expect you would measure the temperature but did they feel hot?

[Birdman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rich L Much better, But still, the sweet spot would work out to about 3000 GPH. My experience is with much larger pumps but I am used to seeing the BEP just before the knee, about 4200 GPH. Looks good. You have a couple of them running at full flow (almost zero head) Did you check them for heat back when the weather was warmer? I don't expect you would measure the temperature but did they feel hot?

I have 7 of them running here, 4-3500s, 2-5500s, and 1-8500. All of them are inside building that are kept warm from all the water being heated. All of them are running at a 0 head configuration except the 8500 which is pumping 5 to 6 feet up to the top of my shower. I have felt them all at several times, this is something I just normaly do when servicing my filters, and have not noticed any other than normal heat.
Last summer before I had the filter house built they were out in the full sun here in the desert and I don't remember any heat then, but I wasn't paying much attention to that other than to make sure they weren't running to hot.

[Rich L]

That's what I'm after. If they wern't running too hot and they are fine now, that's a good thing. The service factor is 115%. That means it will handle that % of load. Start up is important too and the service factor will allow for multiple startups.

If you look at the curve, it's still rising at cutoff. Normally the BEP can be located a little before the place where the there's a slight knee and the curve flattens out after that.