Epoxy Coating for Concerete Pond

[luke frisbee]

For those that haven't seen "lakeLuke"
Lake Luke
pack a lunch.
the specific stuff about xypex is on about the fifth page
the stuff I had mixed into the mortar (by a crew that never had any idea what it was) was X-100 or something like that..it was a red ten gallon can. and per directions I put 1 or two pounds of Xypex in with each big bag of stucco cement (it is on the site0.
if you need to talk call me
321 432 0518.
Mickey Stonepainter has seen My pond. So has Greg Bickal. Each can tell ya, Once the stuff is on it becomes one with the block..the crystals grow right into the block....

as you can see

[ootyboy]

Koiczar, I agree about the smooth surface application for the product -- which is what I had, roughly similar to 60 grit sand paper -- however regardless of how well you follow their instruction, and that is exactly what I did, the product will not cover 60 Square feet per can as they imply in their docs. The coverage is more like 15-20 sq feet per kit. At wholesale $60/can this can be a very expensive application – I think retail is even worst, I have seen it go for as high as $95/Quart.

In addition, when I completed the application of Pond Armor, and the pond was still leaking, the only help they provided was to offer to sell me more of their crappy product. They blame everything from the construction of the pond, to the quality of the PVC that I used.

Also, are you seriously telling me that those two guys at Pond Armor actually manufacture this stuff? First off I challenge you to try to find their company listed in any manufacturing database, or for that matter California Corporate Registry -- they do not exist -- they are a tiny two man show in Santa Maria, CA, without any manufacturing capacity. When they say they "mixing your cans", it simply implies that they are taking material from a larger case, adding tint and caning it with their label.

Also, do you really think that there is that much difference in Expoy material sold by Pond Armor & Nelsonite or for that matter any other Epoxy supplier? This stuff is all the same. It is all about the labeling. At least I know that Nelsonite is a large and reputable company, not some Mickey Mouse operation run by two painters.

[luke frisbee]

Originally Posted by ootyboy

Koiczar, I agree about the smooth surface application for the product -- which is what I had, roughly similar to 60 grit sand paper -- however regardless of how well you follow their instruction, and that is exactly what I did, the product will not cover 60 Square feet per can as they imply in their docs. The coverage is more like 15-20 sq feet per kit. At wholesale $60/can this can be a very expensive application – I think retail is even worst, I have seen it go for as high as $95/Quart.

In addition, when I completed the application of Pond Armor, and the pond was still leaking, the only help they provided was to offer to sell me more of their crappy product. They blame everything from the construction of the pond, to the quality of the PVC that I used.

Also, are you seriously telling me that those two guys at Pond Armor actually manufacture this stuff? First off I challenge you to try to find their company listed in any manufacturing database, or for that matter California Corporate Registry -- they do not exist -- they are a tiny two man show in Santa Maria, CA, without any manufacturing capacity. When they say they "mixing your cans", it simply implies that they are taking material from a larger case, adding tint and caning it with their label.

Also, do you really think that there is that much difference in Expoy material sold by Pond Armor & Nelsonite or for that matter any other Epoxy supplier? This stuff is all the same. It is all about the labeling. At least I know that Nelsonite is a large and reputable company, not some Mickey Mouse operation run by two painters.

sounds like the same kinda "businessman" that repackaged the the magic blue line red line aeromonas "out competer"

[koiczar]

ootyboy

When I had to order additional material, they were temporarily out of stock, due to that pool contractor I mentioned. They told me that they had to grind up material and that there grinding machine had broken. They were fixing that and it would take a week to make the product. I don't care about manufacturing lists or anything else. You had a bad experience. Again, I'll ask you - how did you apply it - squeegee/roller, brush or spray it on? This can make a difference on coverage as well. I will say though, I don't believe it'll cover 60 sq ft per qt kit either. I think it's more 100 sq ft per gallon!

[koiczar]

Originally Posted by Birdman

How big a job is it to clean the sprayer when finished? As thick as pond shield is I didn't know you could spray it.

Steve

Yes, their website refers to it. They recommend thinning it with denatured alchohol about 5%. We worked with 3 gallon kits, due to the speed/gpm of the sprayer, and simply switched mixed pails as we went to keep it from setting up in the hose. Cleaning is a pain in the #$S. You have to break down the entire machine to make sure all the filters get clean as well as 50' of hose. There is an "autoclean" unit on this model and it works very well. Just make sure you remove the filters from the unit and the spray gun before cleaning. Just soak the filters in a small container of denatured alchohol. Xylene is also recommended as a cleaning agent, but we found that as it cleans, it quickly gets tacky from the epoxy. The alchohol stays relatively clean and IMO does a much better job for this material.

Mike

[ootyboy]

I actually rolled and brushed the material around the pond. The stuff is quite thick, and based on their specific recommendation I did not thin the material. I cannot imagine using a sprayer, as the cleaning would be a nightmare.

In my opinion, grinding down dry material and adding water to mix it up does not constitute "OEM" manufacturing status. The raw material is developed by someone else. This reminds of my last trip to the health food store, where I actually saw “Oxygenated Water” – based on your assumption the person that packaged that farce must have also been the “Original Manufacturer” of Oxygen + Water!!

[koiaddictCA]

Thanks luke... im reading up now.

[koiczar]

Originally Posted by ootyboy

I actually rolled and brushed the material around the pond. The stuff is quite thick, and based on their specific recommendation I did not thin the material. I cannot imagine using a sprayer, as the cleaning would be a nightmare.

In my opinion, grinding down dry material and adding water to mix it up does not constitute "OEM" manufacturing status. The raw material is developed by someone else. This reminds of my last trip to the health food store, where I actually saw “Oxygenated Water” – based on your assumption the person that packaged that farce must have also been the “Original Manufacturer” of Oxygen + Water!!

Who said anything about adding water? Where the hell did that come from? You're right, they're taking "raw material" and making an epoxy resin. That's not the same as taking a pre-made resin and pouring it off into their own containers and relabeling it and calling it their own. There is a process to it.

Using the airless sprayer compared to rolling and brushing it on is like night and day. That's why I asked you. So, you didn't follow their directions "to the letter". Check the pictures on the website. Do you see the applicator using a squeegee to spread the material and THEN use a roller? Brushes are for "cutting in" in tight areas like around rocks and penetrations. Yeah, it takes a little time to clean the machine when done (see my post directly above) but you cover a whole lot more ground a whole lot faster and you still have time to go back and check the spots you think might be a tad light. Did you go back and inspect the entire sight for ANY pinholes or holidays? Why did they question the quality of the PVC you used? What schedule did you use? We had no problems with getting it to adhere to the PVC. You just rough it up with 60 grit paper and it holds solid as a rock.

Tell you what, you say potato, I (and others) say potahto, let's let others decide for themselves. As far as I and others are concerned the product speaks for itself. Birdman and I are both professional installers/pond builders, are you? Or are you a DIY homeowner who just built his own pond?

[Eugeneg]

Originally Posted by ootyboy

Has anyone used any type of Epoxy resin as a water proofing membrane for a concrete pond? If so I would love to hear about your experience.

I used a product called Armatur which has whithstood 10 years . It was quite toxic and quite thick to put on .One coat was sufficient and I think that I used about 6gal to do an 8000 US gal pond cost at that time was around $500 .
Regards
Eugene

[Birdman]

Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen

Birdman,

I am no a pond builder for a living but love DIY pond for my own. I plan to build my own pond on my next home so don't mind the newbie questions.

when you said "required 28 days to cure", are you saying the gunite should be left alone for 28 days at least, then acid wash before applying the coating?

thanks,

Steve

Yes, that is what is required before anything can be applied to seal it.