Epoxy Coating for Concerete Pond - Page 4 - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

Birdman · 01-28-2008

I found the roller to be worthless. I used a sheet rock trowel and spread it on with that. I found spreading it out all directions as thin as I could get it was the right thickness. it was hard work, that stuff is thick, but it worked great once I got the hang of it. I really don't know, but must have got the recommended coverage as the amount I ordered did the pond.

kent wallace · 01-29-2008

One problem with any sealer that hardens solid without any flexability is that concrete cracks. When it cracks the hard sealing surface will crack with it. The more structural integrity in your shell the longer it will take to crack. This is the advantage of flexible coatings and the leader in that is Polyurea.
Polyurea and other flexible coatings also can be installed properly or improperly resulting in a failed system. Mechanical clampiing at all penetrations is the most commonly overlooked item in any coating aplication.
Any courtyard or indoor aplication with a coating that hardens will eventually leak and undermine the foundation of the surrounding structure. It's only a matter of when.
Polyurea applied correctly will last a lifetime. All other coatings that I know of will at some point need to be done again so double the cost or triple if the structure is really poor over the lifetime of the pond. Polyurea on the other hand can flex and stay intact even when the structure cracks and moves.

ootyboy · 01-29-2008

Epoxy resins come in “block” form. The distributer cuts it down and mixes it with water before packaging it – making it into a liquid form. That is where the “water” came from. Manufacturing of the resin/epoxy raw material is a very complex process. Requires very expensive equipment, and high level of manufacturing expertise. I go back to my original premise: Pond Armor with 2 guys in southern California, are not manufacturing their product. You can argue what defines a manufacturer, but clearly if you are not making the raw material you are NOT the manufacturer.

I am not saying anything negative about Epoxy/Resins in general, just that you should think twice about buying material from some fly by night company, rather than an established organization that stands behind their product.
Also, if you read their literature on their site, there is very little mention of using airless sprayers. Even the picture on the home page shows some guy using a roller to apply this stuff. Here is a link to their Applying Pond Shield link:

Pond Armor - Non Toxic Epoxy and Polyurea Pond Liners and Sealers

You can argue for a long time about what the best method is, and how much of an expert you are in building ponds, the bottom line is that Pond Armor is over priced, and is not well supported by the company. Also, can you tell me that these 2 guys will be around in 3-4 years when this stuff starts to peel? I think we can all agree that a company like Nelsonite and Xypex (thanks Luke) will be around. Pond Armor is pretty much a fly by night endeavor.

zek · 01-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke frisbee

XYPEX
Xypex Corporation

you guys are awful hard-headed.
I did my pond..yep I took the leap. And Fuzzy was willing to folllow me.
i stuccoed the inside blockwall of lakeluke...whenthe stuff cures it chemical bonds to the block..NADA zip nothing is going to come apart...and it forms a waterproof seal.

And cheap and easy to apply compared to ANY other sealant/coating

Luke, Are there any sites that still have the pics of your lake build?

zek · 01-29-2008

OK, I registered. That was some block work the reverend did.

PondArmor · 01-29-2008

It's obvious that someone has a problem with me. I never for once thought that I would be able or my company would be able to please everyone. That's just a fact of life in business. People are also entitled to their own opinions, no matter how far off the mark they may be. It would be my hope as the hopes of others I have met on this forum that people asking questions take all information into account and use your own best judgment and research to formulate an answer for yourselves. Do not allow someone who has had just one bad experience or just one good experience tell the tale of the whole story. Get the facts. Call the manufacturer and ask questions. When you get your material, ask questions. Follow the instructions. I have spoken to people who never even read the instructions and can't figure out why they are not getting the proper coverage. Do your homework.

That's all Ill say on the subject. I promised myself long ago that I would not get caught up in the nonsense that some people would like to stir up in a friendly forum. But I will address the comments made in regards to my company's manufacturing abilities, man power and my own personal skill sets. Nonsense. I find it funny coming from someone whom I have never met face to face. A series of comments like that are irresponsible.
Good day to you all. If anyone has questions they'd like to ask, feel free to visit my site. Our contact information is there.
Butch

zek · 01-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by kent wallace

One problem with any sealer that hardens solid without any flexability is that concrete cracks. When it cracks the hard sealing surface will crack with it. The more structural integrity in your shell the longer it will take to crack. This is the advantage of flexible coatings and the leader in that is Polyurea.
Polyurea and other flexible coatings also can be installed properly or improperly resulting in a failed system. Mechanical clampiing at all penetrations is the most commonly overlooked item in any coating aplication.
Any courtyard or indoor aplication with a coating that hardens will eventually leak and undermine the foundation of the surrounding structure. It's only a matter of when.
Polyurea applied correctly will last a lifetime. All other coatings that I know of will at some point need to be done again so double the cost or triple if the structure is really poor over the lifetime of the pond. Polyurea on the other hand can flex and stay intact even when the structure cracks and moves.

This doesn't seem to be a problem with a few million swimming pools with plaster coatings? I would think this is would be a much easier & cheaper alternative to spray on polyurathane. There's also thousands of pool guys out there to work on plaster vs a few poly guys.

luke frisbee · 01-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by koiaddictCA

Thanks luke... im reading up now.

you and others are welcome...Fuzzy did his pond last year.

Birdman · 01-29-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ootyboy

Pond Armor - Non Toxic Epoxy and Polyurea Pond Liners and Sealers

the bottom line is that Pond Armor is over priced, and is not well supported by the company. Also, can you tell me that these 2 guys will be around in 3-4 years when this stuff starts to peel? I think we can all agree that a company like Nelsonite and Xypex (thanks Luke) will be around. Pond Armor is pretty much a fly by night endeavor.

Have you personally actually used pond shield, and/or talked with Butch?
Do you speak from personal experience?

I have personally used pond shield. Had trouble at 1st, due to not following the instructions correctly. Even though it was my own fault, Butch cheerfully next day-ed more pond shield at his cost to replace what I had screwed up.

The way I see it, if done correctly, for what it was designed for, the only reason it's not going to work is because the person applying it didn't follow the directions. Plane and simple.

Pond shield is no different from any other sealer, what ever you use, it has to be applied correctly.

ootyboy · 01-29-2008

I am glad Butch is here representing Pond Armor’s side of the story. All I did was highlight the essential facts of the company. I would more than happy if you can dispute the points that I made (without asking us to call in and talk to you directly – which defeats the purpose of a discussion board):

1. Pond Armor is a very small company with a couple of employees. If you don’t believe me call the company.
2. They cannot be found in any manufacturing database as a Epoxy/Resin manufacturer
3. They cannot be found in the California Corporate Registry as a California Corporation, which is strange since they operate in California.
4. They do NOT manufacture their own product, but rather buy resin/raw material from other suppliers to create their mix.

Bottom line is that when you buy Pond Armor you are not dealing with an established company with a long track record. I am not saying you should not buy their product, but everyone should know the facts before taking the plunge. In my opinion there are lot better products on the market.

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01-28-2008	#31 (permalink)
Birdman Jumbo Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Crooked River Ranch, OR. Posts: 691	I found the roller to be worthless. I used a sheet rock trowel and spread it on with that. I found spreading it out all directions as thin as I could get it was the right thickness. it was hard work, that stuff is thick, but it worked great once I got the hang of it. I really don't know, but must have got the recommended coverage as the amount I ordered did the pond.

01-29-2008	#32 (permalink)
kent wallace Nisai Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 88	One problem with any sealer that hardens solid without any flexability is that concrete cracks. When it cracks the hard sealing surface will crack with it. The more structural integrity in your shell the longer it will take to crack. This is the advantage of flexible coatings and the leader in that is Polyurea. Polyurea and other flexible coatings also can be installed properly or improperly resulting in a failed system. Mechanical clampiing at all penetrations is the most commonly overlooked item in any coating aplication. Any courtyard or indoor aplication with a coating that hardens will eventually leak and undermine the foundation of the surrounding structure. It's only a matter of when. Polyurea applied correctly will last a lifetime. All other coatings that I know of will at some point need to be done again so double the cost or triple if the structure is really poor over the lifetime of the pond. Polyurea on the other hand can flex and stay intact even when the structure cracks and moves.

01-29-2008	#33 (permalink)
ootyboy Tosai Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 49	Epoxy resins come in “block” form. The distributer cuts it down and mixes it with water before packaging it – making it into a liquid form. That is where the “water” came from. Manufacturing of the resin/epoxy raw material is a very complex process. Requires very expensive equipment, and high level of manufacturing expertise. I go back to my original premise: Pond Armor with 2 guys in southern California, are not manufacturing their product. You can argue what defines a manufacturer, but clearly if you are not making the raw material you are NOT the manufacturer. I am not saying anything negative about Epoxy/Resins in general, just that you should think twice about buying material from some fly by night company, rather than an established organization that stands behind their product. Also, if you read their literature on their site, there is very little mention of using airless sprayers. Even the picture on the home page shows some guy using a roller to apply this stuff. Here is a link to their Applying Pond Shield link: Pond Armor - Non Toxic Epoxy and Polyurea Pond Liners and Sealers You can argue for a long time about what the best method is, and how much of an expert you are in building ponds, the bottom line is that Pond Armor is over priced, and is not well supported by the company. Also, can you tell me that these 2 guys will be around in 3-4 years when this stuff starts to peel? I think we can all agree that a company like Nelsonite and Xypex (thanks Luke) will be around. Pond Armor is pretty much a fly by night endeavor.

01-29-2008	#35 (permalink)
zek Tosai Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 22	OK, I registered. That was some block work the reverend did.

01-29-2008	#36 (permalink)
PondArmor Tosai Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 33	It's obvious that someone has a problem with me. I never for once thought that I would be able or my company would be able to please everyone. That's just a fact of life in business. People are also entitled to their own opinions, no matter how far off the mark they may be. It would be my hope as the hopes of others I have met on this forum that people asking questions take all information into account and use your own best judgment and research to formulate an answer for yourselves. Do not allow someone who has had just one bad experience or just one good experience tell the tale of the whole story. Get the facts. Call the manufacturer and ask questions. When you get your material, ask questions. Follow the instructions. I have spoken to people who never even read the instructions and can't figure out why they are not getting the proper coverage. Do your homework. That's all Ill say on the subject. I promised myself long ago that I would not get caught up in the nonsense that some people would like to stir up in a friendly forum. But I will address the comments made in regards to my company's manufacturing abilities, man power and my own personal skill sets. Nonsense. I find it funny coming from someone whom I have never met face to face. A series of comments like that are irresponsible. Good day to you all. If anyone has questions they'd like to ask, feel free to visit my site. Our contact information is there. Butch

01-29-2008	#40 (permalink)
ootyboy Tosai Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 49	I am glad Butch is here representing Pond Armor’s side of the story. All I did was highlight the essential facts of the company. I would more than happy if you can dispute the points that I made (without asking us to call in and talk to you directly – which defeats the purpose of a discussion board): 1. Pond Armor is a very small company with a couple of employees. If you don’t believe me call the company. 2. They cannot be found in any manufacturing database as a Epoxy/Resin manufacturer 3. They cannot be found in the California Corporate Registry as a California Corporation, which is strange since they operate in California. 4. They do NOT manufacture their own product, but rather buy resin/raw material from other suppliers to create their mix. Bottom line is that when you buy Pond Armor you are not dealing with an established company with a long track record. I am not saying you should not buy their product, but everyone should know the facts before taking the plunge. In my opinion there are lot better products on the market.