Home | About Us | Contact Us


Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine straight from Japan
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 58

Thread: Pond Skimmers

  1. #31
    Jumbo
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Illinios
    Posts
    536
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John Russell


    As far a scare tactics - the term "Koi killing" came from Larry the Koi Cop in describing water garden ponds.
    Thanks so much for your time.
    Sincerely,
    John Russell




    So does that make Don the CABLE GUY now?

  2. #32
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    3,774
    Quote Originally Posted by Campcheryl View Post
    So does that make Don the CABLE GUY now?
    Hello Cheryl . . .

    Please see post #29 (this thread).
    _____
    Elle-Tee DPC

  3. #33
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,744
    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Hello Cheryl . . .

    Please see post #29 (this thread).
    _____
    Elle-Tee DPC
    Ok, in #29 you said:

    You can call me Don; or you can call me Donald; or you can call me Perry; or you can call me Donald Perry; or you can call me Chandler; or you can call me Lieutenant; but puh-leeze don't call me Larry!
    Soooo, after your response to Cheryl (which does not confirm nor deny her statement,

    "Don the Cable Guy" it is!

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  4. #34
    Nisai
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    110
    Hi all,

    I don't have much time - so this will be my last post for a while.

    Don - The "low cost trinket" in question was the other brand of pond skimmer. Berkokid bought that "low cost trinket" because of its low cost and lost one of his Koi as a result. As you can see by our prices ....we're not "low cost"

    Nancy - I understand your concerns about marketing. For a second, look at me from another angle. What other manufacture puts his neck on the line and lets people such as yourself have direct access - and public access - to them? As your read various publications in the hobby and view the many advertisements in them - can you voice your opinion directly to any of the product designers and CEO's?

    I enjoy the interaction with the public - especially all you folks here. I'd hope that you would appreciate my openess with you all. As long as I'm up front with you - and you know where I'm coming from - there really shouldn't be any friction. I pay good money to be here and market our products. The hobbiests here don't pay anything. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just reminding you that advertisers pay to keep the lights on here. And, as long as I'm paying to advertise .....I'm going to advertise. Since you know that - you can take everything I say with a grain of salt. That's why I always say that people don't have to believe me .....I'm a salesmen with an agenda ......they should simply try the products themsevles and then voice their findings. Good or bad. What other manufacture puts their neck on the line like that?

    Steve - The stainless steel nut, and the end of the stainless steel clamp are on the top of the pipe and out of the water out of harm's way. The stainless steel band is imbedded in a trough in the rubber collar with no sharp edges in the water. The pipe is soft flexible PVC. On the pond in this photo, we left the pipe about 3.5" long to show end-users how liner attaches to pipe in this way. On customer's installations - the pipe is cut to a length of 1/2" past the 1/2" collar to a net protrusion into the pond of 1". No sharp edges. At 1", this application sticks out far less than eductors commonly used in Koi ponds.

    Please note that the rubber collar is for attaching the skimmer's inlet pipe to liner. If the pond is built with concrete, gunite, or polyurea - the skimmer inlet is flush.

    24" long Koi can not fit into this pipe - and they have the strength to swim away from currents at the maximum of this pipe's rating.

    When I said your grate may work at preventing Koi from entering the skimmer - I stand by my claim that it will also trap other objects intended to pass into the skimmer. If it can stop a 2" Koi - it will stop an 8" maple leaf. Not all debris that heads to a skimmer floats in the top 1"-2" of water. Maybe in California, but not in Washington State or under the beautiful New England trees during fall season.

    You may never believe that an open pipe can be used as a skimmer intake until you actually see it with your own eyes. You have my personal inventation to come look at all our ponds - each with skimmers without weir doors or grates infront of the skimmer inlets. We are open Monday through Saturday 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. (Sunday is Golf Day - you're invited to join me on Sundays too)

    Gravity vs. Suction - Both have their purposes. There is no "one-system" that works best on all ponds all of the time. When a skimmer is called for, I believe our pond skimmer to be the best on the market. Compare it to the Savio skimmer that Berkokid bought - hands down ours is far superior. By the way, our skimmers can also be installed in-line with gravity systems.

    Who are our end-users and design partners? We have over 2,000 contractors - and well over 20,000 retail customers across the US and Canada. We also have a retail store with over a dozen working display ponds of various sizes. One thing that makes us different than other manufactures is our retail/wholesale store. It gives us direct relationships with the end users and contractors that our manufacturing competitors do not have. When something doesn't work ....we hear about it. When something is difficult to install or clean ....we hear about that too. We hear complaints and praises about our equipment and those of our competitors. This gives us direct input on how to improve.

    When we see an area that can be improved upon - be it improving our existing products - or designing new ones to address customer's issues - we respond. It makes business sense for us to do so. The first thing we do is develop a prototype. We install it in one of our working displays. We monkey around with it untill it works in our application. Then we make additional prototypes to send out to retail and wholesale customers of ours.

    We call some of our best customers from east, west, north, and south. We send them prototypes at no charge in exchange for their input. We then take their feedback and re-tweek the prototype as necessary. Once a design works in a wide variety of applications and environments - we proceed with production.

    I've offered to enlist people from Koi Bito to assist in our product development as well - but have been rebuked with several comments such as: "I'm not going to help you make money".

    Anyway, gotta go. I've spent a lot of time here and have negleted my other duties.

    Thanks so much everyone.
    Sincerely,
    John Russell
    www.russellwatergardens.com

  5. #35
    Honmei
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,744
    I'll let the others respond to the comments you made directed at them and deal with the section directed towards me below in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Russell View Post
    Hi all,

    I don't have much time - so this will be my last post for a while.

    Don - The "low cost trinket" in question was the other brand of pond skimmer. Berkokid bought that "low cost trinket" because of its low cost and lost one of his Koi as a result. As you can see by our prices ....we're not "low cost"

    Nancy - I understand your concerns about marketing. For a second, look at me from another angle. What other manufacture puts his neck on the line and lets people such as yourself have direct access - and public access - to them? As your read various publications in the hobby and view the many advertisements in them - can you voice your opinion directly to any of the product designers and CEO's?

    I enjoy the interaction with the public - especially all you folks here. I'd hope that you would appreciate my openess with you all. As long as I'm up front with you - and you know where I'm coming from - there really shouldn't be any friction. I pay good money to be here and market our products. The hobbiests here don't pay anything. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just reminding you that advertisers pay to keep the lights on here. And, as long as I'm paying to advertise .....I'm going to advertise. Since you know that - you can take everything I say with a grain of salt. That's why I always say that people don't have to believe me .....I'm a salesmen with an agenda ......they should simply try the products themsevles and then voice their findings. Good or bad. What other manufacture puts their neck on the line like that?

    Steve - The stainless steel nut, and the end of the stainless steel clamp are on the top of the pipe and out of the water out of harm's way. The stainless steel band is imbedded in a trough in the rubber collar with no sharp edges in the water. The pipe is soft flexible PVC. On the pond in this photo, we left the pipe about 3.5" long to show end-users how liner attaches to pipe in this way. On customer's installations - the pipe is cut to a length of 1/2" past the 1/2" collar to a net protrusion into the pond of 1". No sharp edges. At 1", this application sticks out far less than eductors commonly used in Koi ponds.

    First of all, PVC is not "soft." Second, you apparently have never seen the common practice of koi of coming up out of the water to get food in a corner such as what is created with your piping inside of the pond where a koi most certainly will be exposed to that hose clamp and its sharp edges and ends that are not embedded in the slight groove. For the record, I am not a proponent of eductors for the very same reason that I have seen koi get into the nozzle which then leaves a ring style cut on their heads.

    Please note that the rubber collar is for attaching the skimmer's inlet pipe to liner. If the pond is built with concrete, gunite, or polyurea - the skimmer inlet is flush.

    This still leaves the problem of koi swimming or attempting to swim in, exposing such the a ring style cut on its head.

    24" long Koi can not fit into this pipe - and they have the strength to swim away from currents at the maximum of this pipe's rating.

    If they cannot fit into the pipe, they have the strength right up to the point where the increased suction due to ever narrowing space between them and the pipe then creates a point of no return and damage/death is a high possibility/probability.

    When I said your grate may work at preventing Koi from entering the skimmer - I stand by my claim that it will also trap other objects intended to pass into the skimmer. If it can stop a 2" Koi - it will stop an 8" maple leaf. Not all debris that heads to a skimmer floats in the top 1"-2" of water. Maybe in California, but not in Washington State or under the beautiful New England trees during fall season.

    Well John, you keep going back and forth here...it will, it won't it will......
    Leaves fold John and get pulled through the openings...in California, Washington State, New England, the Midwest, the Southwest and even BF Egypt! Now a 2" koi being in a koi pond is simply ridiculous. Koi that small should not even be sold yet.

    You may never believe that an open pipe can be used as a skimmer intake until you actually see it with your own eyes. You have my personal inventation to come look at all our ponds - each with skimmers without weir doors or grates infront of the skimmer inlets. We are open Monday through Saturday 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. (Sunday is Golf Day - you're invited to join me on Sundays too)

    John, you are making the assumption that I have not seen open pipes used for skimmers. You are wrong again, I have and once again would NEVER sunject a koi to that situation.

    Gravity vs. Suction - Both have their purposes. There is no "one-system" that works best on all ponds all of the time. When a skimmer is called for, I believe our pond skimmer to be the best on the market. Compare it to the Savio skimmer that Berkokid bought - hands down ours is far superior. By the way, our skimmers can also be installed in-line with gravity systems.

    Your marketing you product over another. Both have "issues." I have attempted to show you (actually the readers since I do not believe you are open to learning on this subject) a better way. Yours can be installed as a gravity skimmer? Without modification?

    Who are our end-users and design partners? We have over 2,000 contractors - and well over 20,000 retail customers across the US and Canada. We also have a retail store with over a dozen working display ponds of various sizes. One thing that makes us different than other manufactures is our retail/wholesale store. It gives us direct relationships with the end users and contractors that our manufacturing competitors do not have. When something doesn't work ....we hear about it. When something is difficult to install or clean ....we hear about that too. We hear complaints and praises about our equipment and those of our competitors. This gives us direct input on how to improve.

    OK so what you are saying above is that you did not get any real expertise as far as feedback from the experienced koi community as it relates to this skimmer? Names John, not marketing mumbo jumbo.

    When we see an area that can be improved upon - be it improving our existing products - or designing new ones to address customer's issues - we respond. It makes business sense for us to do so. The first thing we do is develop a prototype. We install it in one of our working displays. We monkey around with it untill it works in our application. Then we make additional prototypes to send out to retail and wholesale customers of ours.

    Seems you are reluctant to alter/respond to the viable issues I have presented in this thread....kind of goes against your marketing claims above from my perspective.

    We call some of our best customers from east, west, north, and south. We send them prototypes at no charge in exchange for their input. We then take their feedback and re-tweek the prototype as necessary. Once a design works in a wide variety of applications and environments - we proceed with production.

    John, give me some names of experienced, knowledgeable, recognizable koi hobbyists who fully understand the dynamics of skimmers that helped in your skimmer design.

    I've offered to enlist people from Koi Bito to assist in our product development as well - but have been rebuked with several comments such as: "I'm not going to help you make money".

    John, I made you an offer way back about free consulting on an issue to which you never responded. I am making suggestions here for improvement yet you defend sub par protocols. You say you want assistance but when given do not "listen" such as in this thread.

    Anyway, gotta go. I've spent a lot of time here and have negleted my other duties.

    Thanks so much everyone.
    Sincerely,
    John Russell
    www.russellwatergardens.com
    Oh well!

    Steve
    The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
    CKHPA

  6. #36
    Sansai MysticKoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237
    ... sigh...

    We are unlike other manufacturers in that the end users have direct contact with the head of the company
    I think many here know the people behind most of the popular manufactured products. They have even shared refreshements with them.

    We are unlike virtually all other manufacturers. We have actual working test ponds in a retail setting for people like all of you to come see.
    Where do you come up with this? You don't think other manufacturers test their designs? Check out this video of the test facility at EA. Further, you are more than welcome to visit. Some here already have!

    http://www.evolutionaqua.com/acatalog/EA1.wmv

    Wow... look at me, I got a plug in!

    Bill

  7. #37
    MCA
    MCA is offline
    Honmei MCA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Atlanta
    Posts
    2,574
    Bill,

    This is one time when you and I are in complete agreement. Scary ain't it?

  8. #38
    Sansai MysticKoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    237
    Bill,

    This is one time when you and I are in complete agreement. Scary ain't it?
    LOL... Actually, you and I agree on most everything koi. The difference, I think, is a function of perspective.

    Regards,
    Bill

  9. #39
    Honmei KoiCop's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    3,774
    Well there you go again, John: Still trying to sell that encyclopaedia set with the screen door slamming in your face? You're persistant, I'll give you that. LOL

    OK, let's be honest. You've a natural market for your wares, I'm sure -- it's just that this ain't the spot.

    Re: my use of the phrase 'low cost,' you're correct; that was a poor choice of adjectives and I apologize. I should have stuck with 'low end.'

    In any case, thanks for not calling me Larry again. I do appreciate it.

    Know you must be busy. Catch ya later.
    Don Chandler
    Member: AKCA, ZNA, KoiUSA

  10. #40
    Jumbo
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Illinios
    Posts
    536
    Quote Originally Posted by KoiCop View Post
    Well there you go again, John: Still trying to sell that encyclopaedia set with the screen door slamming in your face? You're persistant, I'll give you that. LOL

    OK, let's be honest. You've a natural market for your wares, I'm sure -- it's just that this ain't the spot.

    Re: my use of the phrase 'low cost,' you're correct; that was a poor choice of adjectives and I apologize. I should have stuck with 'low end.'

    In any case, thanks for not calling me Larry again. I do appreciate it.

    Know you must be busy. Catch ya later.

    Okay if you are not Larry the Koi Cop or Don the Cable Guy, are you Joe the Plumber?

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lester's Pond Redo - Drunk drove van into Koi Pond
    By FowlPlayFarm in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-12-2014, 12:21 PM
  2. ricshaw's pond tour of Koi club member's pond
    By ricshaw in forum Pond Construction
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-03-2011, 12:10 PM
  3. Panty Hose in the Skimmers
    By almostgeorgia in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-24-2011, 10:44 AM
  4. Koi TVĀ® Pond Tour 2010 - Norman Call's Pond
    By koitv in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-03-2010, 02:29 PM
  5. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-19-2009, 02:57 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Articles - Sitemap - FAQs and Rules

KB Footer Graphic
Straight from Japan... For the serious hobbyist!
All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com