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Thread: body height in koi

  1. #1
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    body height in koi

    "* the magoi (Tetsu, Asagi, and Doro magoi) in Japan have, if anything, a flat body shape without height. refer to Asagi' body shape." -
    Super Kindai

    once again, Junichi San has said ' a mouth full' with that comment-- study the body of the asagi and compare it to 'taller fish' like some showa or kohaku. Or in the extreme, compare that asagi body to the doitsu of classic doitsu shape. There is huge lesson there regarding origins and a persistent theme. If you can find old style shapes of many races of carp, you will be surprised at how much more cylindrical those fish are- like the asagi. Indeed, matsunosuke can express this same shape in an extreme form of its own. I'll see if I can find some pictures--- JR


    Junichi San and JR made these comments in the chagoi pigment thread. It is a gem as a lesson.

    I hope both do not mind me repeating them here with some of my photos, as it might allow an extension of the lesson. Perhaps they might comment if perhaps they capture some of what they were trying convey?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbradleybradley View Post
    "* the magoi (Tetsu, Asagi, and Doro magoi) in Japan have, if anything, a flat body shape without height. refer to Asagi' body shape." -
    Super Kindai

    once again, Junichi San has said ' a mouth full' with that comment-- study the body of the asagi and compare it to 'taller fish' like some showa or kohaku. Or in the extreme, compare that asagi body to the doitsu of classic doitsu shape. There is huge lesson there regarding origins and a persistent theme. If you can find old style shapes of many races of carp, you will be surprised at how much more cylindrical those fish are- like the asagi. Indeed, matsunosuke can express this same shape in an extreme form of its own. I'll see if I can find some pictures--- JR


    Junichi San and JR made these comments in the chagoi pigment thread. It is a gem as a lesson.

    I hope both do not mind me repeating them here with some of my photos, as it might allow an extension of the lesson. Perhaps they might comment if perhaps they capture some of what they were trying convey?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	body height comparison web.jpg 
Views:	675 
Size:	160.3 KB 
ID:	36744

    Good post, great contribution. Now we need that cylindrical shape-- I'll look around JR

  3. #3
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    best example of what your talking about was the reserve GC from portland. a showa from INC owned by the Olson's and nicknamed "cherry blossum (sakura) by it's owners.
    Dick Benbow

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    here are some photos of wild type carp bodies. I use this in one of my lectures to show what the three original carp might look like--- The first is a wild carp vs a dmestic or feral carp body and the other are biwa common carp
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  5. #5
    Daihonmei
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    The author suggested this was a tetsu magoi ( iron carp). I'm thinking majoi but I respect the author so I'll go along with his identification---
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #6
    Daihonmei
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    Finally, since I'm in my photo library and on a roll--- this is a rare old photograph of 'carp' n the early part of the last century, in Japan. Note that doitsu was there already and had a vastly different body--
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  7. #7
    Daihonmei
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    Quote Originally Posted by dick benbow View Post
    best example of what your talking about was the reserve GC from portland. a showa from INC owned by the Olson's and nicknamed "cherry blossum (sakura) by it's owners.

    yes, you're right Dick. But a classic showa body with showa shoulders. JR

  8. #8
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Excellent visual lesson. Much appreciated.

  9. #9
    Daihonmei
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    great! glad you are enjoying the pics! Here's a carp that was actually collected from the area of the original carp- in the Caspian sea area. The prototype carp-
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  10. #10
    Daihonmei
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    Now here is a CARP! or as my friend Rob would say " zebra danio" !
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