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Thread: Double Summer/Double Winter

  1. #1
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Double Summer/Double Winter

    Some days ago I posted a question on another board that did not get much response. Perhaps there are readers of this board who can give insight.

    Fall is approaching in Japan. Soon the harvest will begin. At the same time, Spring is arriving in the southern hemisphere. If koi are exported immediately after harvest to South Africa or other southern koikeeping locales, the koi will experience a second summer before a winter rest period. If the koi are exported in Japan's Spring, as so many tosai are, they will arrive in the southern hemishere's Fall. They will get a second winter before another summer arrives. Koi are 4 season fish. Are there effects on development observed that may be attibutable to the "double season" experience?

  2. #2
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Hi Mike,
    Sorry you didn't get much response elsewhere. My take on it is this:

    Basically if we are talking about one or two year olds, the double summer would do them good if your primary function was growth. The koi would have to be of the highest quality as some decent koi can actually grow out of , or thru a beni pattern. My opinion on koi 3 or older is it is much safer to experience winter. Double winter I don't like the sound of unless your dealing with a fast maturing male and have size retrictions that you are trying to control: ie a koi to compete in a young fish show where finish and size dictate entrants.

    The reason I feel justified in my answer on one and two year olds is most breeders in japan bring this crop into a greenhouse, maintain growing temps and continue feeding till spring. Which in my mind is a double growing season.

    Well, I harvested all my tosai today with the exception of my chagoi,kigoi and ochiba. I am truely weary. Some of the asagi were6-6.5 inches in length along with some of the yamabuki longfins. There was one gin rin shiro there to die for. It was twice the koi the brother from two years ago
    turned out to be. And that koi has taken second place in local shows against some pretty tough japanese competition. I got to sort about a dozen mixed kumonryu and matsukawabake nisai. saved two of each to grow on to 3 year old, they were that good. when I came home tonight my son asked me if I had been out fishing? I said "no,why?" He said I smelled like fish! (l0l)

  3. #3
    Sansai Vogata's Avatar
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    Double the fun

    Hello South A that’s a tall order for people like us. Reckon our summer would equal your winter. As everything else in our Kichi we prefer the word “fun” (its always better to laugh than cry)

    Back to the tread you started. Weather and seasons her in Norway is for mostly strictly four seasons, but it’s a long and winding country. We reside in the lower regions and are almost the furthest away from the polar circle possible her. In comes Mother Nature with her upper backhand and slip in the top of the golf stream. Results are as believe you me mildly interesting.
    To have no tropical nights (temperature over 20°C through 24 hours) during a whole summer is normal. So is having them in September and snow in May. This year she (Mother Nature) gave us a little reminder and gave us 30 cm snow in June (that was unnatural but what the h.. it melts as always)
    The point being we often have one or more cycles extra each and every year. The nature doesn’t seam to care and after plundering with this for a wile we decided neither would we.

    In your case I’m sure you have a fairly good understanding of what your pond/keeping facilities will bee able to give you in terms off conditions. We would opt to collect new ones when we had the best opportunity to control (read “influence”) the temperature.

    Think you will have the opposite problem from us. We have drops in temperatures as main problem and the loss off natural light when shielding for the cold. Light is the easy part and heaters (for you maybe a cooler) do the rest. We have just adjusted the problem period and in lack off normal winter (that’s the one outside that at worst jumps around from +10 to –20°C) we take them down to 12-13°C for about three months. This is with gradual and controlled up and down with temperature. This saves some on the bill and they seem to have a good time with it.
    We guessed stabile temperature is more important than what it is. That’s excluding under 10°C – aromas walleye and “boiling”. Her we keep our pond deep and feel that 2 m is shallow. This is in our setting mostly due to the before mentioned Mother and her tricks.

    The growth cycle is also controlled by what kind of food and quantity of this available. We have established a feeding system and stick by it. This may not give us the most out off growth possible, but it’s a choice we have maid and it should support our frail conception of control and year seasons.
    Tone - Truls -Petter
    Vogata NI

  4. #4
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Thank-you so much for the information! Wow! I am gratefull that I don't have near the concerns you do! I think it's wonderful that you and the other koi kichi's there ,can put up with so much for "the love of koi"!
    thanks for your participation in our board. A salute to all koi keepers in Norway!

  5. #5
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    I read this post and replyed on the other board. My conclusion more or less echoed that of Dick Benbow. Great oppertunity for good tosai. A lesser idea for fish older than three years.
    B.Scott

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