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Thread: Food Glorious something or …..

  1. #1
    Sansai Vogata's Avatar
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    Food Glorious something or …..

    To the knowledgeable the Nishikigoi panel out in world.

    The last years we have been supplementing the feed to our Nishikigoi with lax filet and shrimp and earthworms when ever suitable and possible. Normally the to first will take up a high % during winter when they are indoors and easier to monitor. All are fresh and no treated.

    Is there any comment to such a practice?

    I wonder if there are any thought about using filet from pike or other white meat freshwater fish (these I can supply easily fresh all through the year).
    Tone - Truls -Petter
    Vogata NI

  2. #2
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    Koi like people can get bored with the same food served up constantly. I think the use of live food and different food peaks their interest and is a good practice for a better balanced diet. Because living food can carry health problems with them, I would hope the worms you use have been raised under your control and are purged. All the pike and shrimp need to be handled carefully. Since they are from salt water, things they carry should not be transferrable to a fresh water host. You might want to consider watermellon or lettuce
    which are popular in other places. When introducing new food remember sometimes it take the koi time to get used to it or aquire the taste.
    as in most things in life i think everything in MODERATION makes the most sense!

  3. #3
    Daihonmei aquitori's Avatar
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    I read some where the Japanese mixed can tuna with paste food. So I think supplimenting any fish meat will work. I think if your koi are given an overal balanced diet they won't suffer.

  4. #4
    Sansai Vogata's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replay.

    Just as an little notice. We consist of two different pond environment and we have never ever had any problem’s with this transfer problematic that are so vividly described on the net and in literature available. We have been with the described practise for over eight years now. It raises a question about the actual environment in witch its written or we are both extremely lucky?
    Her i woulden tink twice about drinking straight from any river (ecsept the last 1-2 miles of our biggest) and most lakes.

    Well have to modify a little the earthworms are just collected in our own garden where we have control with care and treatments.

    Our experience is that with an unbalanced diet mostly of the items previously described and at a for Nishikigoi low (way low) temperature we observe what for us looks like a blossom in almost every aspect (cant really say growth we feel, even if they don’t slow down as much as they used to and get less feed during the cold period).

    The question really was how far from an balanced diet are fish filet and its like when given raw and fresh?
    Tone - Truls -Petter
    Vogata NI

  5. #5
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Earthworms are an excellent food, if from an uncontaminated source.

    I recall reading that a diet mainly composed of white fish is very unbanced. Unlike consumption of a worm, the internal organs are not being consumed, so many of the minerals, carotene etc are lacking. It is a good source of protein as a diet supplement, or as a treat.

    As DickB said, everything in moderation.

  6. #6
    Sansai Doug Ward's Avatar
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    I read ALLOT, too.
    Too much...

    I wish we could get Toshio Sakai,... and Hisashi, from Marudo,Oomo, and maybe a few DOZEN other breeders from (Niigata) Japan to comment.

    I prefer not to hear comment from the newest " hero"(-shima)

    I see massive speculation from what I often refer to as the "Five Fish Wonderzzz"
    I would LOVE to see a diet regimen from these masters that have hundreds, if not thousands , or TENS of thousands of fish.

    It would be very interesting, and informative, to see the actual diet of the last 10 all Japan Grand Champs, Reserve Champs. etc.....

    Flame suit on... Eauuuuuhhhh Deahhhhhh Bloody, hillbilly yank... :evil: LOL

  7. #7
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    Ok you asked for it. I'm getting Bil and he's gonna paste (food) you all! 8)
    B.Scott

  8. #8
    Tosai
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    This is the latest recipe. So far it holds together better in the water and forms a nice malleable dough. It freezes well, if it is a bit sticky when thawed, just dust it with a bit of seaweed flour.

    For 1 Kg (approx)

    600g fish paste
    150g seaweed flour
    40g clay
    100g egg white powder. (aka albumin in the UK from carp bait sellers eg http://www.ccmoore.com/ £8 a kilo.)
    6 Vit B complex pills
    1/2 teaspoon of vit C powder
    clove or two of garlic if you like.

    The paste is easier now. You need a mincer tho, not a blender. A good food processor will also work, but it needs processing thoroughly. The grinder gives a finer paste.

    I cook up the herring or mackerel with no water, allow to cool and add an equal weight of prawn heads, put it thru the mincer and mix together. Gives a lovely thick paste. Bag it into 600g amounts and freeze. Obviously the base paste can be made in fairly large amounts if you wish. 5 kilos of herring plus 5 kilos of prawn heads will give enough paste to make 16 kilos of food.

    On the day, take 600g of the thawed fish paste, and stir in 100g of egg white powder until it goes to a sticky paste.
    Mix in six crushed vit B tabs and 1/4 teaspoon Vit C powder, followed by 25 ccs oil (codliver and safflower/sunflower 50:50 plus a bit of wheatgerm oil if you like).
    Then stir in 40g Refresh clay, and when that is mixed weigh out 150g seaweed flour. Add the flour and knead well to make a dough. Don't use all the seaweed flour if you don't need it, as too much will make the paste too dry and crumbly.

    Also feed some fresh veg like squash, sweet potatoes etc and some live food, prawn tails and mussels. For squash or pumpkin, I skin it and cube it into suitable sizes, drop it into boiling water , bring to the boil and simmer for about 3 - 4 minutes, less for small cubes, more for big. I then put it immediately into cold water to stop it cooking. I don't bother skinning sweet potatoes.

    I feed a kilo of this a day, together with a kilo of prawn tails (shrimp), crab sticks and sweet potatoes.

  9. #9
    Sansai Vogata's Avatar
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    Hello again

    Okay we get the recipe I guess we have those in the in plural now (our one). Have even been one the road with tar flower and other extremely funny things.

    The puzzle for us is that diets on earthworms have been extremely successful for us, even when nursing back “hit and run” accidents and other nastiest. The amino makeup of these should bee les suited for our beloved ones than other water located organism. When making paste we include most of the organs and bone including head. This is somewhat of and massacre since we are still one the non-coking side of the fun.
    Tone - Truls -Petter
    Vogata NI

  10. #10
    Sansai shiromujigirl's Avatar
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    If you fatten your earthworms by keeping them in a box for a while with wet Japanese clay they will be gut loaded with the minerals and goodness from the clay. Also they will be cleaned.

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