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Thread: what Genetically and non-genetically traits will affect on offsprings?

  1. #1
    Tosai
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    what Genetically and non-genetically traits will affect on offsprings?

    Dear friends,
    I have a question about the koi breeding.

    I would like to know genetically which traits will inherent to offspring from each parent.
    What will paternal traits inherit offspring?
    What will maternal traits inherit offspring?
    Also, there is non-genetically effects that offspring inherit from parents. What could be these effects? I am not sure about but for example, I heard from folks the size of female koi will help to have more and larger eggs.

    Also, I heard that genetically body form or shape will inherit from female and pattern quality will inherit from males.

    I will be appreciated if you could share your knowledge with me?

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    I am not aware of anyone establishing specific genetic-sex links in koi. I am sure there must be some simply because there are sex-linked traits established in regard to most animals studied.

    Koi inherit pattern, body form, pigment quality and coloration from both parents. However, you cannot see in a male what body form his daughters will have, nor can you see in a female what body form her sons will have. This is why breeders select females based on body form more than males. Their goal is to produce females for show. The female oyagoi is all they have to go by. Having selected the female parent based on body form over all other traits, the males are selected based on having desirable traits the female lacks, such as pattern. ....Obviously, what I have said is a broad generalization. I know a breeder who liked using a particular male because his offspring tended to grow large quickly, although it was a normal sized male.

    Large, mature females (but not advanced in age) do produce more eggs. These will be larger if the female has been well fed..... usually.

    When questions of this type are asked, I have a question. What is the goal sought to be achieved in the spawning? If a specific goal is in mind, then it is time to go koi hunting to find parent koi that will let the goal be achieved. (Hopefully.) If it is a matter of wanting to spawn koi already owned for the experience, then I suggest considering every possible combination in the collection and going with the one most likely to produce koi you will like. If there is not enough knowledge with koi to know what happens when, say, a Yamabuki is crossed with a Matsukawabaki or whatever, then stick to fundamentals and try Kohaku, or at least stick to the parents being the same variety. Don't try re-making an established variety (like crossing Kohaku with Asagi to get Goshiki) unless you are ready to deal with thousands of ugly fish and end up with the best being fairly worthless. There is no shortcut around the half century of breeding refinement since most varieties were originated.

    Good luck!

  3. #3
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Definitely no examples of sex-linked inheritance of desired traits in koi.

  4. #4
    Sansai Reza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
    I am not aware of anyone establishing specific genetic-sex links in koi. I am sure there must be some simply because there are sex-linked traits established in regard to most animals studied.

    Koi inherit pattern, body form, pigment quality and coloration from both parents. However, you cannot see in a male what body form his daughters will have, nor can you see in a female what body form her sons will have. This is why breeders select females based on body form more than males. Their goal is to produce females for show. The female oyagoi is all they have to go by. Having selected the female parent based on body form over all other traits, the males are selected based on having desirable traits the female lacks, such as pattern. ....Obviously, what I have said is a broad generalization. I know a breeder who liked using a particular male because his offspring tended to grow large quickly, although it was a normal sized male.

    Large, mature females (but not advanced in age) do produce more eggs. These will be larger if the female has been well fed..... usually.

    When questions of this type are asked, I have a question. What is the goal sought to be achieved in the spawning? If a specific goal is in mind, then it is time to go koi hunting to find parent koi that will let the goal be achieved. (Hopefully.) If it is a matter of wanting to spawn koi already owned for the experience, then I suggest considering every possible combination in the collection and going with the one most likely to produce koi you will like. If there is not enough knowledge with koi to know what happens when, say, a Yamabuki is crossed with a Matsukawabaki or whatever, then stick to fundamentals and try Kohaku, or at least stick to the parents being the same variety. Don't try re-making an established variety (like crossing Kohaku with Asagi to get Goshiki) unless you are ready to deal with thousands of ugly fish and end up with the best being fairly worthless. There is no shortcut around the half century of breeding refinement since most varieties were originated.
    Good luck!

    Hi parsaria


    As Mike said, tracing and tracking of genes effect on offsprings requires a huge, long time and so costly (A human genome recording is cost 1000$ and around a week).


    Mike is 100% right.


    I think also, breeders didn't look at the genetic separately, No one can study on their parents genetic in a few days. Instead, they focus on Phenotype, visual and historical aspects of what they want to breed. The lineage, the parents of current candidate parents, their visual quality, form, body conformation and shape, scale and skin quality pattern quality and finishing.


    I don't know where you are but In Iran, I am highly looking a way to improve domestic koi quality. I have learned from this forum focusing on genetic at this moment will not change the result, and almost looking impossible. But on the sets of parents quality and non-genetical aspects may more useful for me.

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