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Thread: Dick and anyone who ever bred metalic koi

  1. #1
    Tategoi jacovors's Avatar
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    Dick and anyone who ever bred metalic koi

    Hope you have time to answer some of my questions regarding the culling of Kujaku,Kikisui and Hariwake.At what size do you do you're first culling and what did you look for?
    I do subscribe to Koi-Bito and read in an article Kaneko says you should look for Kujaku fry with a bluish black on the head and very strong Hikari. I would prefer to wait for some form of pattern before culling so small and guessing which to keep. I recon with Hariwake a form of pattern can be seen quite early and I should cull them for pattern and Hikari only.I heard that in Kikisui the red can come later, is this true?

    I would appreciate if any of you can find the time to give me some pointers and secrets Please

    Best wishes,
    Jaco Vorster
    South Africa

  2. #2
    Daihonmei MikeM's Avatar
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    Jaco: Once again, can only share what I've read. All the interviews of Japanese breeders say to eliminate the ones with less shine. The more intense the metallic, the better. The strongest shine is in small ones, and only goes down as they grow. If you cull for pattern, you will lose your best fish. (And, if I were in your place, I'd probably still keep a few of the ones with the most appealing pattern despite what everyone told me!) On to more important point ... Got some pictures???

  3. #3
    Daihonmei dick benbow's Avatar
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    First let me say that depending on your brood stock, lots of things enter into the decision making for the selection process. After you have bred a pair and are happy with the pairing you will learn what to look for that's indicative of which ones to select thru trial and error of previous generations. What you read may be true for genetics or water conditions.(remember these can vary
    as to what to look for )


    My advice would be let the koi get up to 3-4 inches to really get an indication of pattern. initially your looking for Sheen. Remember Hikari means a bright or brilliant. I like to cull these types out in the sunshine where I can easily distinquish the irredescence. those with smaller pecs or no shine get ofted early.You can generally tell by an inch or two.

    With Hariwake i have seen color come up very late so pattern is not always a good indicator.With kujaku, the ones in our water ( it brings out strong black almost immediately) the ones that look stunning as tosai get blackish forheads
    as nisai so i tend to look for those with good patterns,sheen and little black.
    you will have to see what happens with your water. Always keep a few individuals for 3-4 years to track and learn.


    Don't look at the process so much as a mechanical operation but one that you generate thru experience and hunch as you begin to grasp what your seeing to allow for individuality.

    I am not a professional breeder but I gladly share what i have learned that may help you in your quest for knowledge.

  4. #4
    Oyagoi mrbradleybradley's Avatar
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    Beware

    I have never posted before, but am happy to share my experiences.. I bred kujaku for the first time last year. Kujaku spawns can give a mixed bag of results. I would first recommend deciding if you really want to keep all the extras, ogons, hariwake, matsuba etc. I did, mostly to see how they develop.

    The first thing I noticed is that a couple of brilliant ogons from this spawn developed fuzzy light greyish/blue across the back at 12 months of age. Now thay are dirty Kin Ki Matsubas.

    Secondly, dirty heads cleared nicely up in kajakus, but remained in others.

    I hope we will have our second kujaku spawn this year soon, I live in Sydney Australia, so our spring is in full swing. Last year they spawn in Decemeber.

    Hope this helps

  5. #5
    Oyagoi
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    I'll never forget doing sembetsu on my first crop of kujaku offspring many, many years ago with my mentor Atsushi Suda.

    We had a tankful of them and were sorting our way through when I came upon a fish with quite an unusual pattern. But, not much hikari at all. Mr. Suda tossed the fish into the culls saying, "No shine, no kujaku."

    Its all about the shine and not much about the pattern. Of course great shine plus great pattern equals great kujaku, no shine, no kujaku.

    Look for shine in small koi in the pectoral fins and the head. These places, even on small koi of a few inches, should be highly reflective of sunlight with a shimmering.

    Kujaku, or other hikari breed means shine.

    Brett
    Brett

  6. #6
    Tategoi jacovors's Avatar
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    Talking Shine and lustre first

    Thanks everyone,
    What more could I have asked for. Look for shine first and pattern later.
    I too would be interested to keep a few of the bi-product of the spawn to see what else crops up.My fry ponds are filled to the top and are inground ponds so I have a very good view of the fry and enjoy whatching the changes as they occur daily.They are two and a half weeks old now and the color are starting to show through, lots of black on the sides and the bigger ones all have black on the head.
    I only spawn two sets now and find it much easier to cope with.
    My mud ponds are at 24c already and we had a cold spell two weeks ago but the Spring rain has come and I think we are in for a hot one this year.
    Again thank you everyone,
    Mike you're input are always appreciated
    mrbradleybradley uor turn to enjoy the sunshine now
    Jaco
    Jaco Vorster
    South Africa

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