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Thread: Biologist seeks Koi Clubs and enthusiasts wanted

  1. #1
    Tosai kckclass's Avatar
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    Smile Biologist seeks Koi Clubs and enthusiasts wanted

    We are testing a device that oxygenates water, removes chlorine, bleeds filter air and reduces algae (both green and black varieties) and are seeking several Koi Clubs and breeders around the world who may be interested in helping us out. I won't mention the name of the product here so nobody is offended by this post, but if you're interested, please send me a PM or email. Thank you. Also if you have a 'favorite' product(s) that do these things, please let me know. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Sansai Doug Ward's Avatar
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    OK.. I read your two postingz.
    " Work for Biologist"
    Now you ARE the biologist.
    I dunno if English is your first language but.....
    WHATTUP ?

    Brian.... Ya watching ???

  3. #3
    Tategoi
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    Tell me it makes my whites whiter and my colors more vibrant and I'll hook you up with my very special south african banking associate to provide funding.

  4. #4
    Tosai kckclass's Avatar
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    Talking

    (why is this text gray?)

    Anyway, ok, found the color thingy...now OFF with the bold ok, think I've got it working right now....yes, I speak a little english. I learned it growing up in East L.A. along with a few other languages and dialects (heh heh). I just don't always spell as well as I should.

    Onward:

    We installed the 'device' on a biologist/koi breeder's pond. It has been marketed to the swimming pool industry for 15 years now and she realized it did a few things we didn't recognize specifically for koi and carp breeders (and next we'll address farmed fish industries) and then asked us to find other koi breeders who were willing to collect data such as:

    1. The unit primes dry pumps so folks with older systems should monitor if this helped them by not having to re-prime their pumps regularly (a pain...called the pool man dance...garden hose in the pump, close quickly, fire away etc.)

    2. The unit bleeds filter air and while her system was very new, almost all filters have this problem (comes from pump action and disolved air in water which is released under the vacuum/pressure cycle) which, as it accumulates, reduces exposed grid surface area which she said would help decrease bacteria and algae counts compared to systems that constantly have trapped air in the filter. Now this one will be a bit tougher to get real data on since most people (if they are wise) bleed their filters regularly...several times a week and bacteria counts (and algae) can come from so many places so we aren't sure if we can determine a net benefit here except it's handy to have the air bled for you so perhaps with enough sampling we will see a trend.

    3. The unit installs without scarring the equipment; no digging, drilling or cutting pipe and while some folks simply use a garden hose (bad idea if you forget it's on and not UPC compliant) and others have a horse trough or toilet float style fill valve, (great if it was installed when the pond was built), many people find these things fail and if they want to stay within building and planning ordinances, they either rip out the old units and replace them (expensive) or get one of these...or use a surface mounted toilet float thing. We want data/reports from people who install them and what difficulties they have. While she suggested that most people wouldn't have any difficulty doing this, since we've sold them for 15 years we've seen a few mishaps (such as getting the two fittings backwards even though they are color coded) so a little data here would be nice.

    4. The unit oxygenates the water (why she bought one) and we want counts...that is oxygen levels before and after installation over a month or two. We are willing to provide a few free units to folks who are willing to collect all this data to confirm what she said we would find...healtheir fish.

    5. Since black algae is anaerobic and the unit adds oxygen we want to find someone with a chronic black algae problem and see if it does what it did to a swimming pool test we ran; knocked it out of the ballpark (how's that for english?) as in 3 months after installing the unit the black algae was reduced to about 1/10th of it's initial coverage. Since many folks already run aerators this may be a tough one to find but...

    6. Since the filter is working more efficiently and we suspect many algae problems are related to improper/negligent filter bleeding we also want to find someone with a chronic green algae problem/surface scum etc. and see if there is any effect there.

    7. Since the unit allows incoming city water (and recirculating water) to be passed under a high wattage UV light in the unit's clear tubing, we also want to get before/after chlorine measurements as well as bacteria counts (if possible) so we can see what effect the UV light has on killing circulating bacteria, algae and reducing chlorine from the incoming water supply. This test is rather simple (pool kit), but the bacteria counts may require a test subject who is either an MD or has access to someone with a lab locally. Some breeders test their water regularly, some have chronic problems that need to be fixed and some don't worry about it. We are seeking people who do worry about it and are monitoring it.

    As the posts aren't meant to 'advertise' a product I won't mention it here and folks who are interested in more details can PM me. The ideal candidates for receiving a free unit would be MDs who are also breeders, folks who write reviews for magazines (yes, we want a few of those) and known breeders and/or a few club presidents since most of them are well known and respected within their groups and on the national/international scene.

    Does that answer most of your questions on what we are trying to accomplish with these tests? Basic before/after data collection from a large sample population that has chronic problems.

    And yes, according to her, oxygen, reduction of bacteria and chlorine and algae problems all help make your 'whites whiter' as you say and probably even make your koi a bit more chipper and hey...even more sexually active


    ...but we decided against calling it 'Koiagra' although I suppose there is still time for testing that as well.

  5. #5
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    I repeat what I said before, how can periodic water additions boost O2 levels on a stable basis?
    Black Algea? Anerobic conditions??? Not in my pond, Ever!

  6. #6
    Tosai kckclass's Avatar
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    its not the addition of water that adds oxygen. it's in the design of the jettek...when running it squirts rather large volumes of air through the inlet jets of the pond as part of it's design.

  7. #7
    Sansai Doug Ward's Avatar
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    I'm quite sure you are detcting a hint of pessisizzm here.
    May I make the suggestion that you contact Mr.___ % EDIT% The creator of the Matsunosuke bloodline of Nishikigoi and propose your theory and product to him personally.

    Our American Express cards await his response.

  8. #8
    Jumbo B.Scott's Avatar
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    ...when running it squirts rather large volumes of air through the inlet jets of the pond as part of it's design.
    Yes but I take it that means it is only working when water is being added?

  9. #9
    Tosai kckclass's Avatar
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    Question

    Ok, two questions here...

    Q: First to quote: The creator of the Matsunosuke bloodline of Nishikigoi and propose your theory and product to him personally. Our American Express cards await his response.

    A: we don't take American Express...sorry and actually any biologist who is a koi breeder can usually determine if any food, nutrient or device is harmful or beneficial to life forms. In fact, I'd say most breeders...you as well...know the benefits of adding air to a pond full of aerobic organisims (like fish) ... I saw an article on using a large grinding stone and tube for this...but I am sure there are cadillac model aerators as well.

    And the device is NOT meant to replace them. The more air the merrier as they say...

    Q: it only works when it's adding water?

    A: I see a devil of an engineer in you coming out and you are very close.

    Actually it passes a moderate amount of air bubbles all day long and when a pond is low it passes more...quite a bit more and wave action causes a bit too. HOWEVER if the pond is a bit overfull and there are zero waves it probably won't pass any air so the margin is within 1/32 or 1/16th of air in or not...which takes almost no time to evap and so it again begins to add air...in increasing amounts as the pond level evaps/drops more.


    Q: 3 - do I see the skeptics out there?

    A: If you told me you had a product that did 5 different things that were of benefit to my pond and I had a few thousand bucks in there I would examine the device in action with a probing rectal scanner and review the feedback from others who have used it before spending a dime.

    Naturally they come with a 30 day money back etc. and the longest warranty in the industry on this type of device...5 years. They are virtually indestructibe. A gent just bought one in the U.S., it shipped and he wanted me to get him two components that he can get locally, but we thrive on support so I'm getting them up here, sending to him and he said he's going to paypal the payment, but little does he know the receipt/invoice I'll slip into his package will only be about half the cost for this 'hardware store' item.

    Why would I cheat myself on that? That's a question you have to wonder, eh?

    Well, first if I got it at a large store it would be about half and I am not driving 30 miles to Home Depot so he can have it for about that price. That keeps people from getting upset over local hardware store prices.


    Next, I figure we already made a profit on the unit. The $5 or $10 we eat on the difference is worth the customer smile. A lot of businesses do cut and dry invoices; you pay for every penny and having written accounting software for 25 years, you pay a guy like me to count every penny on your computer. What many firms don't realize is that the first time a customer gets outstanding support, I mean Ritz Carlton style (I worked for them too) and/or something free that isn't really cheap, the first time either of those things happen they become customers for life and will tell all their friends you're simply the best.

    If you had a business model and CPA and Controller and Comptroller it's difficult to wedge that sort of support into the corporate cracks...they'll all laugh at you or chew you out. But if you're the CEO you can damn well play the game anyway you want...I do. I've supported folks for 25+ years so well my wife married me after a year of phone support for a large accounting package she bought for her half mill operation....we joke she liked the package so much she married the programmer...these days she's married to a cabinet maker but that's a different story.

    At any rate, break out your rectal scanners if you will: I've seen the movie before and I don't blame you a bit. Probe, question, ask away and I do want to stress one very important issue here...and that is...

    I really do thank you for your interest, time and consideration at this forum. It's been a great place to get to know a few lil devils. Have a great weekend.

  10. #10
    Jumbo
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    Shameless, absolutely shameless-----

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