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Thread: How many momotaro Kohaku parent koi?

  1. #1
    Oyagoi koifishgirl's Avatar
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    How many momotaro Kohaku parent koi?

    Hi I was just wondering how many momotaro Kohaku parent koi does the momotaro koi farm use when spawning. Is it true that their is only two sets of parent koi. One is Eagle and the other is what?
    Going back to the genes, If they use only two sets of parents are the genes not their to throw good koi? If you purchase one of the offspring of the two and want to raise some koi, dont you have a chance? And why do you have to pay thousands of dollars for a koi to get some good stock?

  2. #2
    Jumbo
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    The time it takes,...

    "If you purchase one of the offspring of the two and want to raise some koi, dont you have a chance? And why do you have to pay thousands of dollars for a koi to get some good stock?"

    Hi Koifishgirl,

    The first question that comes to mind is,... "How will you know you aren't breeding brother to sister when you "grab" a few Momotaro Koi and breed them together, or cousins, etc.?" Koi genetics are complex in that they are difficult to map, and very difficult to predict.

    Some pairings of Kohaku will produce ALL Aka-Muji, or koi with no desireable patterning,... some Kohaku pairings will produce all Goromo, or all fry with specks in the beni,... and these parent Koi can look excellent themselves, but the babys are all poor - and then some pairings are like magic!

    A good parent Koi will pass traits on to their offspring that the breeder desires - regardless of what the parent Koi looks like. Bad parent Koi pass on or magnify bad characteristics,... that aren't desired.

    A "good" parent set bred at Momotaro Farm CAN produce excellent offspring,... BUT these offspring may ALL be poor choices for parent Koi, because of the family history of the parent Koi. It's very important to know the history of the parents,... or you can spend a LOT of time and a lot of money spinning your wheels. As an example,... Maeda mixes Kohaku with Sanke in some of his breeding and gets Kohaku offspring,... breeding these Kohaku offspring may produce ALL Sanke,... it's hard to say without testing, or trial runs.

    Then,... after you have a good pairing,... you have to know how to cull this pairing's offspring,... do the Kohakus develop early? or late? What if they develop late, and you throw away all the good ones because they all looked like Aka-Muji at 45 days? What if the patterning passed on by the parent Koi was the type of patterning suitable for large Koi,... and the offspring all looked ugly until they were 3 years old and 60 cm, and then began growing into their patterning and looking stunning,... yet you didn't have a facility large enough to raise a group of 100 Koi to 60 cm,... you would never see the true potential of the parent stock,... and on and on.

    So, to answer,... good parent stock are very rare,... and rare is valuable,... and proven parent stock (parents that have been tested to be good, and come with a history of what to expect) have incredible value in that you know what you will get.

    Best Wishes,
    Brady Brandwood

  3. #3
    Oyagoi koifishgirl's Avatar
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    Smile

    Thanks Brady, I see what you are talking I think. My understanding is that you just keep spending and breeding untill you come up with a good pair. You could run in mega buck like that and still may not come up with anything thats great.

    In terms of brother and sister are they not all if you go with momotaro koi, in the same family? My understanding is they only spawn two or three pair, so how can you be sure you are not buying brother and sister?

    I only have two acres, do you think that would be adaquate to raise a spawn up to a year? I had wanted to cull very heavy at first but now I am not so sure I should do this. And what about expense trying to raise koi up to that age and then them still not turn out that great. When I do my first spawn will be makeing a photo album of the koi at one month and then take pics after another month to compare to untill age of four months. I was hopeing that this would be enough time to tell the basic pattern of the koi, and be able to tell a little about hi and shiro, and also be able to look at the fry of my next spawn and be able to tell early on what to cull. Am I going about this all wrong? Also have though about benching the koi to see what kind of growth rates I will get in first 6 mo.

    Is their anyway that you can tag koi? It would be better in terms of identifying the koi if the change is drastic

  4. #4
    Tategoi Maurice's Avatar
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    Koifishgirl, Momotaro spawn near or over 100 sets each year. Strange you think they only have 2 or 3 sets.

    Maurice.

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    Years and years,...

    You'll do fine Koifishgirl,... just eat right, get plenty of sleep and exercise,... and watch your cholesterol. Longevity and patience are key.

    Best Wishes,
    Brady

    P.S. we just rag you about your spelling because you're new,... sort of an initiation.

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    Jumbo gregbickal's Avatar
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    Along the same lines, I am going to use some Kohaku males with my Female Showa to improve the pattern of the Hi. Comments on this ?

  7. #7
    Tategoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maurice
    Koifishgirl, Momotaro spawn near or over 100 sets each year. Strange you think they only have 2 or 3 sets.

    Maurice.
    Now, Maurice, you've BEEN THERE. You've seen the Koi-Bito #6 DVD. But from the outside I can see how somebody could think there are only a few kohaku parent sets. Even Mike's articles on the 80cm quest talk about fish in relation to one of the famous champions.

    To my mind a breeder should have a vision of the end results desired. For instance, Brady's concept of a perfect kohaku could be different from Maeda's. 90% agreement but different in terms of the exact hue of beni, exact shape of head, exact shoulder shape, etc.

    And that's what makes artists (breeders) different and why different advanced hobbyists (customers!) will have different favorite breeders.

  8. #8
    Tategoi
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregbickal
    Along the same lines, I am going to use some Kohaku males with my Female Showa to improve the pattern of the Hi. Comments on this ?
    Interesting idea. Are you still going to cull for just showa?

  9. #9
    Tategoi Maurice's Avatar
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    Jason, there are two 500 tons ponds full of females, plus many in the 1500 ton pond are used for breeding.
    This does not count the ones being grown on in 100 ton ponds.
    And that's just for females. The males house that is being used at the moment is huge. About 20 ponds.

    The whole thing is awesome!!

    Mauurice.

  10. #10
    Tategoi Maurice's Avatar
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    One of two 500 ton ponds for Momotaro breeder females.


    Maurice.

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