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Thread: Shiroji, winter, ORP, DOC

  1. #1
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Shiroji, winter, ORP, DOC

    What is the relationship between those eye popping, glistening whites and colder water, ORP and DOC? Do high end ponds experience the same changes in cold water?

  2. #2
    Daihonmei
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    There are two main factors at the heart of all the water symptoms you are hitting on that result in a very different look and a very different behavior in your/our koi- and they are:

    1) Oxygen levels
    2) metabolic shift in the koi themselves due to light and temperature

    JR

  3. #3
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Can you explain in more detail, JR?

    My oxygen levels remain about 11 all summer. I live in Louisiana so we donít have severe winters. I canít remember my water temps ever getting below 50į and my fish are always ready to eat. I understand that their metabolism still slows down but not as much as cold weather koi.

  4. #4
    Daihonmei
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    How can your oxygen level stay the same when your temperature changes? JR

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    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    Hint: DO (mg/l or ppm) can not stay eactly the same if the percentage of saturation is to stay the same....when temps change. It is really hard to express just how much depends on DO levels in a pond. Maybe even skin quality?
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  6. #6
    Nisai oldslugger's Avatar
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    At 26C I am saturated at 8mg, so does it mean that to achieve better DO I need to lower my temp to get better shiroji?

  7. #7
    Daihonmei
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    What Michael is saying is that :

    a) there is a saturation for temperature reading in each degree of change.

    b) you want to be as close to saturation for the corresponding temperature as possible.

    This is tricky as the normal biomass of the entire pond and it's organic metabolic needs will reduce that ambient oxygen routinely.

    What Kntry is talking about is the 'change' that occurs in that relationship of oxygen and temperature and what I added was the fact that the metobolic rates and needs of the entire biomass changes as water cools.
    JR

  8. #8
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm not remembering the cold readings correctly then. I do know that during the summer, 11 is correct. I just got a new O2 kit about a month ago and it also read 11.

    Are you saying that in colder water, the O2 readings would be lower?

    I've always thought part of the reason for the whitening in cold water was due to lower feeding levels which in turn reduces the organic load on the pond.

  9. #9
    Honmei MCA's Avatar
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    DO levels are inverse of temperature. The higher the temp, the lower saturation. See attachment that shows the relative saturation of DO into fresh water...at sea level. Yep, the higher the altitude the lower the DO levels possible. For most of us, no problem. But I bet Jan T and Bob W see lower DO levels due to altittude.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	do levels.jpg 
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    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

  10. #10
    Oyagoi kntry's Avatar
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    I'm visual, so that helped. I think the misunderstanding is I'm talking about the O2 levels on the drop kit. That is not saturation levels, right?

    I'm below sea level so I guess I can raise mine, huh?

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