Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bakki shower thread continuation

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • #16

    Originally posted by kingkong
    What a wild ride it was. I logged a lot of time in reading and self-educating myself on that one. Teewaa, can i get some credits on my continued education requirements this year for the State of Florida?
    You have earned so much points I believe you deserve a certificate heck i recommend that the state of Florida procure you as one of their staff to tutor the next generation of hobbyist

    They have banned me totally there and have reopend the thread, there is one thing that i do miss heaps its those emoticons.

    I will not bother to address Valr directly as I feel this person is trying to turn things sour again. He has every right to state his opinion but why not do it on another board or his own thread on this board. I really wanna stay clear of this thread turning sour again I hope this person has the courtesy to just start his own thread.

    I just want this thread kept clean as I know that this person style of posting leads to immediate confrontation. So I hope that this person will just start his own thread.

    Others can feel free to post their ideas, I will refrain from saying anything like you are wrong and refrain from directing an answer at anyone in particular just my himble opinion and belief.

    I hope to really keep this thread clean. I will continue to ignore that person and hope that others do to so we can avoid any ill feelings that we and this person may have towards each other. I know its naive to try and keep a thread clean with no fighting. I just want to share the information I find and others have found and will find. I hope those that will share (if they do not agree) will not direct any slender to momotaro or any other dealer but just post their science.

    tewa
    There is no such thing as a zero maintenance pond but the closer you get the more time to enjoy your koi. Soft low TDS water is the perfect pond water.
    http://www.tewakoi.com

    Comment

    • #17

      HI TEWA!

      While i appreciate the passion you have for expressing your beliefs, I'm not sure this forum is one that you need to bring along baggage from another forum.

      i THINK IT WOULD BEST SERVE YOUR PASSION TO SIMPLY SHARE WHAT YOUR LEARNING and let the KB group contribute their ideas and concerns .

      I've always had a lot of pride for this board because of the good respectful nature of our group. I think you'll agree that this is a great group to share convictions with.
      Dick Benbow

      Comment

      • #18

        [QUOTE=MikeM]Tewa, KingKong, Valarc: If you are going to continue the discussion on this board, please remember that the tone of the postings should be in keeping with the tone of this board. I think too many participants in the Koiphen thread got overly emotional and perhaps a bit frazzled? ....I think pretty much all that could be said about Bacteria House media and far infra-red rays was said (often thrice), but I would certainly enjoy learning of anything new.

        I agree MikeM I have chosen to not post anything directed at that person. I hope that he can start his own thread. I really want to keep this one the way we post here on KB.

        I think a sad point in focusing on the questionable science of FIR is that the benefits of a shower filter (Bakki or otherwise) has gotten lost in the debate.

        I agree and I think the experiences of users is just as important as the finding of new information on FIR.

        However, Tewa, all of the good done by these products gets lost when the discussion turns to FIR. The more the discussion focuses on FIR, credibility is lost on the most important aspect of these products: real people have had excellent results using them. Please keep that in mind

        Mike I agree the most important is the results such as fish health, fish growth ease of maintenance. The results sell themselves, in UK this is very evident. I have read on koichat that Cliff neale has managed to raise a 24cm momotaro tosai to over 70cm as a nisai, this matches the biggest nisai produced at momotaro and this was with a pond of 36000L that uses the onimoshi streamflow concept. I know that the more I research FIR the more it seems I am reducing the credibility of the product to new hobbyist that read this but in my humble opinion there is something definitely about FIR that we do not fully understand because there must be a reason why Maeda went to that much trouble to get the increased levels of FIR. Most importantly the end result of bakki shower users is great. This is my own personal endeavor to understand what maeda says of FIR no dealer or agent has tried to understand it as much and I would agree there is no need to since the results is the most important. I am not trying to research for extra sales but I am really trying to find out for myself and I can swear that when people in Aus ask about BH I only sell the results (what they can see, fish health, fish growth and beauty of the fish). I have enough trying trying to tell them that the fish waste magically dissapears since I cant see it in the pond, in the shower or in the media as people find it very hard to believe that it just gets consumed


        Last night I was going through the koiphen thread to copy the information I found useful, I was shocked to see how much energy I had spent over the last two and a half weeks to post against others arguments (and i had only got through fifty pages still got thirty more to go) when that time could have been used to find more information. That is why I hope this thread wont turn out like that.

        tewa
        There is no such thing as a zero maintenance pond but the closer you get the more time to enjoy your koi. Soft low TDS water is the perfect pond water.
        http://www.tewakoi.com

        Comment

        • #19

          Originally posted by dick benbow
          HI TEWA!

          While i appreciate the passion you have for expressing your beliefs, I'm not sure this forum is one that you need to bring along baggage from another forum.

          i THINK IT WOULD BEST SERVE YOUR PASSION TO SIMPLY SHARE WHAT YOUR LEARNING and let the KB group contribute their ideas and concerns .

          I've always had a lot of pride for this board because of the good respectful nature of our group. I think you'll agree that this is a great group to share convictions with.

          Totally agree with you Dick I think the KB group is fantastic
          There is no such thing as a zero maintenance pond but the closer you get the more time to enjoy your koi. Soft low TDS water is the perfect pond water.
          http://www.tewakoi.com

          Comment

          • #20

            Lets start with some general information

            http://www.answers.com/topic/infrared-1

            infrared radiation, electromagnetic radiation having a wavelength in the range from c.75 × 10−6 cm to c.100,000 × 10−6 cm (0.000075–0.1 cm). Infrared rays thus occupy that part of the electromagnetic spectrum with a frequency less than that of visible light and greater than that of most radio waves, although there is some overlap. The name infrared means “below the red,” i.e., beyond the red, or lower-frequency (longer wavelength), end of the visible spectrum. Infrared radiation is thermal, or heat, radiation. It was first discovered in 1800 by Sir William Herschel, who was attempting to determine the part of the visible spectrum with the minimum associated heat in connection with astronomical observations he was making. In 1847, A. H. L. Fizeau and J. B. L.

            Foucault showed that infrared radiation has the same properties as visible light, being reflected, refracted, and capable of forming an interference pattern. Infrared radiation is typically produced by objects whose temperature is above 10K.

            There are many applications of infrared radiation. A number of these are analogous to similar uses of visible light. Thus, the spectrum of a substance in the infrared range can be used in chemical analysis much as the visible spectrum is used. Radiation at discrete wavelengths in the infrared range is characteristic of many molecules. The temperature of a distant object can also be determined by analysis of the infrared radiation from the object. Radiometers operating in the infrared range serve as the basis for many instruments, including heat-seeking devices in missiles and devices for spotting and photographing persons and objects in the dark or in fog. Medical uses of infrared radiation range from the simple heat lamp to the technique of thermal imaging, or thermography. A thermograph of a person can show areas of the body where the temperature is much higher or lower than normal, thus indicating some medical problem. Thermography has also been used in industry and other applications. Some lasers produce infrared radiation. A recent development has been the expansion of research in infrared astronomy; infrared sensors are sent aloft in balloons, rockets, and satellites to study the infrared radiation reaching the earth from other parts of the solar system and beyond.

            infrared radiation (in-fruh-red)

            Invisible radiation in the part of the electromagnetic spectrum characterized by wavelengths just longer than those of ordinary visible red light and shorter than those of microwaves or radio waves.

            The heat we feel from a glowing coal or an incandescent light bulb is from infrared rays.

            Infrared (IR) radiation is electromagnetic radiation of a wavelength longer than visible light, but shorter than microwave radiation. The name means "below red" (from the Latin infra, "below"), red being the color of visible light of longest wavelength. Infrared radiation spans three orders of magnitude and has wavelengths between 700 nm and 1 mm.

            Different regions in the infrared
            IR is often subdivided into:

            near infrared NIR, IR-A DIN, 0.7–1.4 µm in wavelength, defined by the water absorption, and commonly used in fiber optic telecommunication because of low attenuation losses in the SiO2 glass (silica) medium.
            short wavelength IR SWIR, IR-B DIN, 1.4–3 µm, water absorption increases significantly at 1450 nm
            mid wavelength IR MWIR, IR-C DIN, also intermediate-IR (IIR), 3–8 µm
            long wavelength IR LWIR, IR-C DIN, 8–15 µm)
            far infrared FIR, 15–1000 µm
            However, these terms are not precise, and are used differently in various studies i.e. near (0.7–5 µm) / mid (5–30 µm) / long (30–1000 µm). Especially at the telecom-wavelengths the spectrum is further subdivided into individual bands, due to limitations of detectors, amplifiers and sources. Infrared radiation is often linked to heat, since objects at room temperature or above will emit radiation mostly concentrated in the mid-infrared band (see black body).


            The common nomenclature is justified by the different human response to this radiation (near infrared = the red you just cannot see, far IR = thermal radiation), other definitions follow different physical mechanisms (emission peaks, vs. bands, water absorption) and the newest follow technical reasons (The common silicon detectors are sensitive to about 1050 nm, while InGaAs sensitivity starts around 950 nm and ends between 1700 and 2200 nm, depending on the specific configuration). Unfortunately the international standards for these specifications are not currently available.



            Plot of atmospheric transmittance in the infrared region of the electromagnetic spectrum.
            Telecommunication bands in the infrared
            Optical telecommunication in the near infrared is technically often separated to different frequency bands because of availability of light sources, transmitting /absorbing materials (fibers) and detectors.

            O-band 1260–1360 nm
            E-band 1360–1460 nm
            S-band 1460–1530 nm
            C-band 1530–1565 nm
            L-band 1565–1625 nm
            U-band 1625–1675 nm

            The Earth as an infrared emitter
            The Earth's surface absorbs visible radiation from the sun and re-emits much of the energy as infrared back to the atmosphere. Certain gases in the atmosphere, chiefly water vapor, absorb this infrared, and re-radiate it in all directions including back to Earth. Thus, the greenhouse effect, keeps the atmosphere and surface much warmer than if the infrared absorbers were absent from the atmosphere.

            Night Vision
            Infrared is used in night-vision equipment, when there is insufficient visible light to see an object. The radiation is detected and turned into an image on a screen, hotter objects showing up brighter, enabling the police and military to acquire thermally significant targets, such as human beings and automobiles.

            Smoke is more transparent to infrared than to visible light, so fire fighters use infrared imaging equipment when working in smoke-filled areas because it does not interfere with other devices in adjoining rooms - this is especially important in areas of high population density (IR does not penetrate walls).


            Other Imaging
            In infrared photography, infrared filters are used to capture only the infrared spectrum. Digital cameras often use infrared blockers. Cheaper digital cameras and some camera phones which do not have appropriate filters can "see" infrared, appearing as a bright white colour (try pointing a TV remote at your digital camera). This is especially pronounced when taking pictures of subjects near bright areas (such as near a lamp), where the resulting infrared interference can wash out the image.


            Thermography
            Infrared radiation can be used to remotely determine the temperature of objects (if the emissivity is known). This is termed thermography, or in the case of very hot objects in the NIR or visible it is termed pyrometry. Thermography (thermal imaging) is mainly used in military and industrial applications but the technology is reaching the public market in the form of infrared cameras on cars due to the massively reduced production costs.


            Heating
            Infrared radiation is used in Infrared saunas to heat the sauna's occupants
            (An infrared sauna is an area that heats it's occupants with heaters that emit Far Infrared Ray radiation. Unlike conventional saunas, which use heated steam, an infrared sauna does not heat the air. An infrared sauna is usually a wooden box containing several infrared heaters, although an infrared sauna could be open air and still heat the user's in the same manner. In essence, the sauna box creates the atmosphere of the sauna while the heaters create the actual sauna effect.


            Far Infrared Rays are invisible band of light warms objects without warming the air between the source and the object (known as conversion). This radiant heat can also be called Infrared Energy (IR). This band of light is not visible to human eyes but can be seen by special instruments that translate infrared into colors that are visible to our eyes. The best example of Infrared Energy is the sun (80% of the sun’s rays are infrared). Our atmosphere allows IR rays in the 7 to 14 micrometre range to safely reach the Earth’s surface. When warmed, the Earth radiates infrared rays with its peak output at 10 micrometres. The human body radiates infrared energy out through the skin at 3 to 50 micrometres, with most around 9.4 micrometres.) and to remove ice from the wings of aircraft (de-icing).


            Communications
            IR data transmission is also employed in short-range communication among computer peripherals and personal digital assistants. These devices usually conform to standards published by IrDA, the Infrared Data Association. Remote controls and IrDA devices use infrared light-emitting diodes (LEDs) to emit infrared radiation which is focused by a plastic lens into a narrow beam. The beam is modulated, i.e. switched on and off, to encode the data. The receiver uses a silicon photodiode to convert the infrared radiation to an electric current. It responds only to the rapidly pulsing signal created by the transmitter, and filters out slowly changing infrared radiation from ambient light.

            Spectroscopy
            Infrared radiation spectroscopy is the study of the composition of (usually) organic compounds, finding out a compound's structure and composition based on the percent transmittance of IR radiation through a sample. Different frequencies are absorbed by different stretches and bends in the molecular bonds occurring inside the sample. Carbon dioxide, for example, has an absorption band at 4.2µm.

            History
            The discovery of infrared radiation is commonly ascribed to William Herschel, the astronomer in the early 19th century. Herschel used a prism to refract light from a hot source and detected the infrared, beyond the red part of the spectrum, through an increase in the temperature recorded on a thermometer.

            references
            1.) Encyclopedia information about infrared
            The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition Copyright © 2003, Columbia University Press. Licensed from Columbia University Press. All rights reserved. www.cc.columbia.edu/cu/cup/

            2.)Science information about infrared
            The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition Edited by E.D. Hirsch, Jr., Joseph F. Kett, and James Trefil. Copyright © 2002 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin.

            3.) WordNet information about infrared
            WordNet 1.7.1 Copyright © 2001 by Princeton University

            4.) Military information about infrared
            US Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Words, 2003.

            5.) Wikipedia information about infrared
            This article is licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License. It uses material from the Wikipedia article "Infrared
            There is no such thing as a zero maintenance pond but the closer you get the more time to enjoy your koi. Soft low TDS water is the perfect pond water.
            http://www.tewakoi.com

            Comment

            • #21

              Oh boy... the majority of respondants being nice to him say he'd be best off to leave the FIR stuff alone and what does he do... I'll leave this one to you guys, I hope you have fun reading some of the most ridiculous attempts at scientific explanation since the Fox "faked moon landing" conspiracy theory a few years ago. I'm out of this thread like tewa is out of his mind. Peace.

              Comment

              • #22

                Wow! This is like dejavue all over again! Seriously folks, if the BH works so well, who the hell cares how or why it works so well, just let me know when the cost will come down to my level. I've seen first hand how well it works, I just can't afford it yet! Hey, maybe its just the scrubbing bubbles!
                Koi-Unit
                " Da Best" Chapter
                xxx

                Comment

                • #23

                  Originally posted by Akinosan
                  Wow! This is like dejavue all over again! Seriously folks, if the BH works so well, who the hell cares how or why it works so well, just let me know when the cost will come down to my level. I've seen first hand how well it works, I just can't afford it yet! Hey, maybe its just the scrubbing bubbles!

                  EXACTLY!!!!!

                  “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed” Adolf Hitler


                  Chris~

                  Comment

                  • #24

                    I too am going to bow out of this thread, Tewa, please read my first post on this thread, you are making a fool of yourself time and again. I'm not here to attack you but simply offer you some advice. What you choose to do with it is your business of course but it is getting embarrasing now.

                    Edit: I've just followed a link to your website. I had no idea you had a vested interest in momotaro, I thought you were a missinformed hobiest. It all comes clear now. Hope trading standards dont see that drivvle on there, someone could be in a spot of bother.

                    Comment

                    • #25

                      Brian,

                      Do us all a favour and lock this thread before it deteriates like it has on other boards.

                      I tried to change the angle on this several posts ago and get it back on the straight and narrow to no avail.

                      I am now not going to read or contribute to this thread anymore -

                      IT'S RIDICULOUS.
                      Greg.

                      "The target is within"

                      Comment

                      • #26

                        Skipping all the scientific and pseudo-scientific arguments (which are important in theory but sometimes fail in the face of actual practice) I think we have this: it is a fine media but maybe we can get the same or similar results with cheaper materials.

                        *shrug* -- OK.

                        When theory is proven then can likely find materials that give better X for Y performance.

                        In the meantime I think we've got good lessons -- shower filtration is nice, greater turnover through filtration is nice, removal of DOCs is nice. These apply to every media and every system.

                        So does that make BH media itself special? Not so much. Is the BH media worth the extra $$? Well, this comes down to a value judgement like 'how much are you willing to spend on a fish'... I've tried it, it is nice media, but I'm not converting everything over right now. I think there are better bang for buck options for my pond right now.

                        For a pond like MikeM's everything else is already top notch and the BH media and trays just makes it better.

                        Is a Mercedes worth the $$ over a Toyota? That is for you to decide. I think comparing the BH media vs lava rock similar -- they both roughly equivalent things, just one is better overall (degradation, clogging, etc).

                        Comment

                        • #27

                          [QUOTE=MikeM]Tewa, KingKong, Valarc: If you are going to continue the discussion on this board, please remember that the tone of the postings should be in keeping with the tone of this board. I think too many participants in the Koiphen thread got overly emotional and perhaps a bit frazzled? ....

                          I will try to tone it down, sorry, I am doing the best I can.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment

                          • #28

                            LOL !!!!!
                            Last edited by MikeM; 08-15-2005, 03:36 PM. Reason: To keep it polite :)

                            Comment

                            • #29

                              Leaving out the pseudo-science: Everyone I have known that has installed a shower system using any media has great results, especially those with the ablity to send 2x the pond volume through one each hour. I have used bioballs, k1, and lava rock, all with excellent results. It may vary with lava rock source, but I have never had any "powder" buildup in a lava rock shower (I spend a couple minutes hosing them off before adding). Lava rock and K1 stay clean by themselves even at lower than bakki-type flowrates. (I've had some issues with algae growth on the brand of bioballs I have, but a higher flow rate they may be fine). We can talk about the pseudo-science all day but still any tests with shower or TT filters with bakki and other medias have still never shown significantly superior performance from either. Its easy for bakki users to test, they may already have $2,000-$4,000 in bakki media whats another $10 for some lava rock in bulk, or another $50-75 if you want it bags from Home Depot. If BH was a similar cost, or provided free or loaned I would test. Otherwise its hard to imagine how I could notice an improvement in a pond that is usually very clear, biologically healthy even with heavy feedings, its hard to imagine much better growth either.

                              Ryan S.

                              Comment

                              • #30

                                Ryan, you and I are on the same page. because I give seminars I will buy the material ( I get nothing free for test product as I owe no one anything) and run it myself so I can give my personal experience.

                                Bottom line is after all is said and done, you'll only know if it works if you try it yourself. I for one tried it in conjunction with my j-mat and continue to run it that way and am happy to say it works for me.
                                Dick Benbow

                                Comment

                                All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com
                                Working...
                                X