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Asagi Breeding 2004

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  • Asagi Breeding 2004

    Dick wanted me to post these photos of his parent asagi. He will provide all the other information. A rather nice couple, don't ya think!
  • #2

    With much thanks to dan for posting my pics!
    Photo number one is of the male. Reverse, meaning the net pattern at the end of the scale is black. the second photo is of the female, narumi meaning it has a white net pattern. the third photo is of the pair together in a show tank that Sue Squires and i use to breed our pairs.
    The male has been in hard well water which keeps his head discolored.
    His head is actually a bit better than his bride's when in the right conditions.
    This male is about 8 years old while is mate is half that. He has spawned many times while this will be the first attempt for his lady friend.
    The water temperature was 61-62 F when introduced and we covered the tank with netting and plastic and added some aquarium heaters to raise the temp. It usually helps to bring water up or down about 4 degrees to help induce spawning. One airstone is used in the tank to supply the needs of the parents.
    In the meantime, Sue has gotten a brine shrimp cultivation station going to hlp feed the fry. ( are we hopeful or what!)
    that's about it for now. Hopefully I'll have some news that the spawning has occured. usually it comes to be via an email entitled your a grandpa!
    Dick Benbow

    Comment

    • #3

      Dick,

      This is a great topic! I'm looking forward to your reports. Can we look foward to seeing updates similar to Maurice? Maybe a close up of the male, as I don't recall seeing anything like him before.

      Motown

      Comment

      • #4

        Hey Dick,
        What are the benefits of crossing a reverse scale with a narumi? Does it yield better asagi? I cant wait to see more pictures...For the show tank do you have any filtration on it or just the air stone and some Amquel(sp?, thats the ammonia removing product right?) ready to get rid of any ammonia.

        Best Regards,
        Alex Gibbs

        Comment

        • #5

          Alex,
          This is my first time to breed asagis. I am playing a hunch I have based on other breedings I've been sucessful with. I don't know if this will work or not. But I intend to find out and you will too!
          For example, my best gin rin come from a breeding of one gin rin parent not two. Some of the nicest longfins i have seen have been with one longfin parent. you don't get as many "good' koi but the few that pass inspection on usually superlative.
          Most of the time with parents introduced to a spawning tank i have a spawn within 24 hrs, so i don't worry about ammonia build up caused by the parents. If they go longer than several days then I will make some water changes. my biggest concern is when you have litterally thousdands of babies begin to eat and put waste into the water. That's when the fun begins!
          In cases like showa and shiros you can scale down by dividing to respectable numbers within the first week. With koi like asagi, you don't have a clue for months!
          I will try and get some closeups of the male next weekend. he's a wild one as are most asagi's. It's been 24 hrs now since the koi were introduced and I have not heard anything as yet. ( we breed the koi at Sue's Blueberry farm where she has lots of acreage. She's about a half hr's drive from my home) I should hear monday morning and will update.
          Thanks for the interest. Brian is working on an article(s) on asagi's and some of thier famous breeders who really know thier stuff with these koi.
          Hopefully he will get a professional shot of the reverse for you! If not I will try!
          Dick Benbow

          Comment

          • #6

            Hey Dick,
            Cant wait to find out, also my friend and I will be spawning a showa pair this year. One male will be gin rin so maybe we will get some nice gin rin if what you say is true. But we only have one 1000 gallon pond to raise the fry in so we will only be able to keep a small amount, but since it is showa hopefully we will be able to cull a large amount early on. This is are first year of experimental breeding and maybe next year if we get some more space we will be able to try artificial spawning so we can control the genetics and determine the best pairings. My new 4000+ gallon pond is officially filled so sometime in June when the fish can move over we will start breeding. I notice that you raise the temperature to induce spawning, but here in NJ the water will already be very warm by June, will water changes work the same way? Or will we just have to wait them out? Hopefully we can get a good female to go with our good males, but if not we have a backup female with low quality hi, but it is of course just an experimental breeding.

            Best Regards,
            Alex Gibbs

            Comment

            • #7

              Now that we met the parents I cannot wait to meet the rest of the family.
              I for one will follow this very closely.
              Thanks Dick and Dan.
              :P :P
              Jaco Vorster
              South Africa

              Comment

              • #8

                Thank You!

                Thank you very much!

                Looking at the combination(reversed asagi + narumi), I would expect the outputs(union of the two colorations) to be totally black or blue kois with Asagi's red markings! :lol:

                Just kidding....just kidding...
                Bancherd

                Thai Koi-Keepers' Group

                Comment

                • #9

                  Dick,
                  I'm familar with konjo, narumi, mizu,Taki, hi asagi and the goshiki/asagi hybrids.
                  what is your opinion/explanation of the differences between a konjo asagi and a 'reverse' asagi? JR

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Well word has arrived via the telephone that the parents have spawned and the amount of eggs laid is modest. But not bad for a first time spawning. By thursday of this week we should have some hatchlings
                    and hopefully this saturday I can get a few close ups of the nose hair sized babies as they make thier appearance in this world.



                    definition of asagis
                    Konjo-the scale is dark blue almost black( also referred to as Gunjo)

                    narumi-the scale is aqua marine blue with white edge

                    mizu-the scale is very light blue ( this blue is close to the blue we're used to seeing on young shusui) water colored hence the name

                    taki- the back is lighter blue closer to mizu with white stripe down lateral line to divide the red belly from the blue back. this white is remeniscent of a waterfall, hence the name.

                    reverse-dark blue scale with black edging. blue is between konjo and narumi.
                    Dick Benbow

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Thanks, That's interesting. I had always been taught that only the original Konjo had Indigo blue full scales from the magoi? And that konjo was divided into 'tetskon' ( Iron blue) and 'nasukon' ( purple blue) and the modern 'konjo' which is pure dark blue with a black border or edge.
                      In konjo the scales lose the white and become black to gray as you get up towards the head. The Old timer Japanese spoke of the black tip on konjo asagi as being the ornamental boarder- Are we talking about the same thing?
                      JR

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Not too long ago ford bought out the jauquar (sp?) motor car. they built it
                        on a ford taurus frame. A lot of former owners don't call it the same thing
                        as ford does now. the same thing was true with the mini-cooper. The most
                        popular sticker these days on the real mini's is !00% free of BMW parts!
                        The
                        main distributor of this product in the USA also calls it reverse. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with this board and feel you may call it what you will.
                        I refer to the koi now as "dad"...(lol)
                        Dick Benbow

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Oh Dick,

                          You found a game that I can play.

                          Saturn==>Opel==>Sabb
                          Crossfire==>Mercedes 500slk
                          Hummer H2 ==> Silverado 2500
                          Pontiac Vib ==> Toyota Matrix
                          PT Crusier ==>Neon
                          Cadillac CTS ==>Opel
                          Renault ==>Nissan
                          Chevy Equinox ==>Suzuki
                          Trailblazer ==> Isuzu...

                          Oh no...The Detriot Stormtroopers are here, I've said to much......

                          Help,

                          Motown

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Thanks, "motown" I needed that! maybe it's marketing to come up with a "new' name or just another way to create interest in an existing product or maybe the creation of a new one.

                            The parents got moved back to thier respective "boy"- girl ponds to recover. Both parents fared well and there was auctually a little more eggs there than first thought.
                            Dick Benbow

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Great start, Dick!

                              Interesting observation regarding breeding unlike types of a variety to get a few super ones. Crossing "like with like" will give greater uniformity, but at the price of greater genetic in-breeding: higher deformities, lower immunity, etc. By crossing two separate strains of the same variety, recessive traits may be lost (which can be good or bad, depending on the breeding goal), but a sort of hybrid vigor can occur: larger, healthier fish. I expect you have gotten only a few "superlative ones", because most of the individuals no longer exhibited desired recessive traits. But, the two strains were close enough that some did keep desired recessive traits and of these there were a few that also exhibited the "hybrid vigor" effect. The perfect combination.

                              I know nothing about the genetics of the Asagi you are using, so this is going to be a wonderful adventure in all sorts of ways. Thanks for taking us along.

                              Comment

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