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Transporting Koi to the Show

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  • #31

    I guess I'm not following the gossip here, but you can get a reaction from a koi by touching/pinching the tail/tail tube area- it is an involuntary flight reaction and can increase adreline and circulation. Is that what this judge was saying? Was the fish groggy from carbon dioxide in the bag? JR

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    • #32

      Originally posted by johnsmith
      Is that what this judge was saying?
      How would one Know JR? When he just walked away chuckling... Anyhow needless to say the koi are fine. No pinching was done and a lesson was learned..

      Joe
      It's a living creature (chit happens)

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      • #33

        I'm sorry Joe, I'm not following? JR

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        • #34

          Originally posted by johnsmith
          I'm sorry Joe, I'm not following? JR

          How would one know when the only statement was "pinch the tail" laugh and walk away.. No explanation.. Sounded more of like a Joke as one walked away..

          Anyhow like I said.. a lesson was learned and the koi woke up after a more than a few acrobat's

          Maybe we should move this into the koi CPR section. As this is about koi transport..

          Joe
          It's a living creature (chit happens)

          Comment

          • #35

            Originally posted by Sangreaal
            ...But what about a koi's disposition? If the fight or flight mechanism is a fine hair trigger in the specimen you want to show, wouldn't transport and showing do some traumatizing? Would transport with a laid-back buddy that takes everything as it comes help at all? How soon do they bounce back from the ordeal after getting home? And what about QT? How long?

            Marie the Inquirer


            As far as QT goes, to be on the safe side I would think the same procedures as a new acquisition would apply. Exposure to "foreign" fish is no different than a new purchase as far as I'm concerned.
            Koi disposition would be a go/no go decision maker for me in showing. A fish with a bad reaction to handling is likely to fall apart (bloody gills, fading color, etc...) and not be in show condition anyway, but moving it from the pond to quarantine/purge tank before the show will tell you how it reacts. If it can't handle that, don't take it to the show. I suppose that part really comes down to what kind of "relationship" you are able to establish with the ones you plan to show. If they aren't comfortable being handled by you at home chances are slim they'll fare well under show conditions.
            Bear in mind, this advice is coming from a guy who has only transported Koi a few times, and never to a show...yet
            Larry Iles
            Oklahoma

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            • #36

              Originally posted by PapaBear
              As far as QT goes, to be on the safe side I would think the same procedures as a new acquisition would apply. Exposure to "foreign" fish is no different than a new purchase as far as I'm concerned.
              Koi disposition would be a go/no go decision maker for me in showing. A fish with a bad reaction to handling is likely to fall apart (bloody gills, fading color, etc...) and not be in show condition anyway, but moving it from the pond to quarantine/purge tank before the show will tell you how it reacts. If it can't handle that, don't take it to the show. I suppose that part really comes down to what kind of "relationship" you are able to establish with the ones you plan to show. If they aren't comfortable being handled by you at home chances are slim they'll fare well under show conditions.
              Bear in mind, this advice is coming from a guy who has only transported Koi a few times, and never to a show...yet
              All very good points, Larry, because when any animal, especially a fish, moves into the feral/fear mindset, they can really hurt themselves in more ways than one. Fear can drop the immune threshold into the dirt while the adrenaline is rushing, and I don't know about koi (though I suspect it could be true in some cases), but some animals actually fade their colors, sometimes to an ashen white like in Macaws and humans--their faces lose all color at the moment of a fear adrenaline rush. So does an octopus. So it would seem like it would behoove the koi keeper that plans to show to either work on socializing and desensitizing their flighty charges, or when picking out koi for possible show, take note of that koi's disposition.

              I have work, then, to do with Shiia the GR Showa and Blurt the GR Hi Utsuri. They are both high voltage koi, Shiia because of fear (we're working on it and she's doing good, but she's not all the way to confidence yet), and Blurt....well Blurt is just a lightning quick thinking koi. Everything she does is fast, in a Blurt (hence the name), even if it's right into my hand. She blurts and barges, and I don't think she's going to slow herself down anytime soon. Would probably even be a jumper in the bowl...not a good thing at a show, I would imagine. How often does that happen?

              And just a stray question that just popped into my mind:
              Are there any tranquilizers used to calm koi in transit? Whether it be to a show or shipping through the mail, is this ever done, and if so, what are the pros and cons of the agents used and the practice itself?

              Marie
              Marie

              http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

              "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
              paints his own nature into his pictures."
              --Henry Ward Beecher

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              • #37

                Tranquilizer dosing for transport...

                Originally posted by Sangreaal
                ...just a stray question that just popped into my mind:
                Are there any tranquilizers used to calm koi in transit? Whether it be to a show or shipping through the mail, is this ever done, and if so, what are the pros and cons of the agents used and the practice itself?

                Marie
                I'm gonna leave that one to someone else because I know nothing about proper dosing for tranqs (other than clove oil drops for medicating, etc...) , but I bet somebody does .
                Larry Iles
                Oklahoma

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                • #38

                  I really like a product made by jungle labs called bag buddies. They are small blue tablets you place in the bag with the koi. They work great. Koi stay calmer and there is much fresher smelling water than when I forget to use them.
                  Disclosure:These opinions are based on my experience and conversations with persons I consider accomplished koi keepers and do not reflect the viewpoint of any organization.

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                  • #39

                    Originally posted by RayJordan
                    I really like a product made by jungle labs called bag buddies. They are small blue tablets you place in the bag with the koi. They work great. Koi stay calmer and there is much fresher smelling water than when I forget to use them.
                    Would you happen to know what the active and inactive ingredients are in "Bag Buddies?" Just curious as to what substances are used...

                    Marie
                    Marie

                    http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

                    "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
                    paints his own nature into his pictures."
                    --Henry Ward Beecher

                    Comment

                    • #40

                      Originally posted by carolyn swanson
                      I always wondered about hydrogen peroxide as an emergency quick fix in times of low oxygen. Someone once suggested that a spray bottle of it be carried when fish were being transported.
                      Carolyn

                      Excelllent point!! YES, Hydrogen Peroxide is something that should be carried. Especially for long haul trips using bags/boxes. I chaired a show a few years ago and one entrants fish came in in very bad shape (to the point where two were almost dead). One of the other hobbiests ran out to his car and came back with a bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide. At that time I hadn't realized what it would do. Within 5 minutes the fish were starting to behave normally though showed signs of stress. After being released in the show vat, after about 30 minutes the fish showed no signs of any ill effects. I was really impressed and have always remembered what I saw that day.

                      Thanks for bringing it up

                      Mike

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                      • #41

                        Adding a note of caution to Carolyn and Mike's post about Hydrogen Peroxide, be careful what concentration you're using. The typical drug store stuff at 3% is probably fine, but it's also sold in higher food grade concentrations at 35%.

                        Hydrogen peroxide is a very strong oxidizer. In fact, it has a higher oxidation potential than potassium permanganate and chlorine.

                        -Dan

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                        • #42

                          There is a save way to use Hydrogen peroxide for fish transport!
                          A product called the Söchting Oxidator uses Hp in a small plastic container (different sizes for different size tanks / pond and even a mini for fish bags or fish bowls). They add a katalyst (a small piece of ceramic) into the container and the Hp will start to decompose in pure oxygen and water. The slowly growing gas bubble in the container will push out Hp through a small hole in the bottom of the container. This Hp escapes in second container that is made of ceramic (acts as katalyst) and decomposes immediately in O2 and H2O. So you add pure oxigen to the water at a slow rate (there are no vissible bubbles, the O2 dissolves 100%).
                          The nice thing is, that the reaction increases with temperature. So warmer water will lead to quicker decomposing of the Hp and so to a higher O2 production. Just what we want!
                          You can refill the container yourself when empty. The concentration Hp varies for each model and application.
                          I use these oxidators in all my shop tanks to add extra oxygen without having the water surface disturbed by bubbels and to have a back-up for power outs (the oxidator needs no power).
                          I tryed to find a link to an English site with info but could only find info on German sites. Maybe this product is not sold worldwide......yet!
                          Maybe a good idea.....
                          Grtz, Hans

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                          • #43

                            Originally posted by Sangreaal

                            Are there any tranquilizers used to calm koi in transit? Whether it be to a show or shipping through the mail, is this ever done, and if so, what are the pros and cons of the agents used and the practice itself?

                            Marie
                            For the second time, I posted it as something to add to your kit early in the thread, Elbagin.

                            http://www.enkoi.com/prod342.html

                            Rick

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                            • #44

                              Originally posted by Clay
                              For the second time, I posted it as something to add to your kit early in the thread, Elbagin.

                              http://www.enkoi.com/prod342.html

                              Rick
                              Well thank goodness you DID post it for the second time, because somehow I missed that first post. Thanks, Rick.
                              Marie

                              http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

                              "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
                              paints his own nature into his pictures."
                              --Henry Ward Beecher

                              Comment

                              • #45

                                Originally posted by Clay
                                For the second time, I posted it as something to add to your kit early in the thread, Elbagin.

                                http://www.enkoi.com/prod342.html

                                Rick
                                Umm...no disrespect intended, but after reading the ingredients Elbagin isn't a tranquilizer, it is a:

                                "
                                Bactericide and Fungicide, used by the Japanese for years. Helps reduce stress. Ideal quarantine treatment and gill wash. May be repeated every seven days. Can be used with salt at up to 1oz per gallon. Can be used as a dip at up to 20gm per 220 gallons."

                                I was specifically asking about bona fide tranquilizers and their use in transporting and showing koi.

                                M

                                Marie
                                Marie

                                http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/koi-gr...wout-form.html

                                "Every artist dips his brush in his own soul, and
                                paints his own nature into his pictures."
                                --Henry Ward Beecher

                                Comment

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