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Ion-exchange Softener for good skin?

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  • #16

    I found the article I referred to earlier, in Nichirin August 2002 and penned by Ken Sasaki a prof from Hiroshima University.

    The data quoted shows an average hardness across mud ponds in Niigata, Hiroshima, Yamanashi and Kunamoto of 28.62mg/l. This is based on 10 different samples ranging from 4mg/l to 82.2mg/l.

    The data for indoor ponds shows a average hardness level of 99mg/l across 21 samples. However, there are 2 samples from Nara region which are way above others as 462 and 200mg/l.

    If we factor those out then we get an average of 73.72mg/l across the remaining 19 ponds.

    Mark
    Mark Gardner

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    • #17

      Hi all just want to mention my experience here in Australia. There are still very few close to no one using softwater on their ponds in Australia except for me. Many of our kois from breeders are grown from dams but majority of these dams have hard water as they use a lot of underground water.

      I have personally seen a kohaku from a pond with around 900 ppm TDS reading go within 2 weaks from light yellowish skin to snow white skin within 2 weeks of being in the TEWA KOI pond (TDS of 50ppm) and also great improvement in Hi and Beni.


      TEWA
      There is no such thing as a zero maintenance pond but the closer you get the more time to enjoy your koi. Soft low TDS water is the perfect pond water.
      http://www.tewakoi.com

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      • #18

        The yellowishness you observed in high level hardness water is likely the metabolic wastes building in the skin & tissue. The high level of dissolved matter in the water prevents these wastes from leaving the body osmotically. In soft water, the wastes can be exuded through the skin as well as be filtered out by the kidneys etc. This leaves whites cleaner & reds brighter. ....I've read that there is a greater need for calcium in the diet in soft water, but not sure that standard quality pellets are not fully adequate in that regard.

        Comment

        • #19

          Thank you all for the interesting and varied responses.

          Yes I have read both Mike Snaden's and Anne telford's articles, as appeared in Koi Carp Magazine (#101 and #112). I think these two articles represent the opposite view with regards to what kind of water is better for koi. So it seems that there are two kinds of water - one as dominant in Japan, and the other as in the rest of the world. But there are more converts now who consider that Japanese type of soft water is better.

          Personally, I tend to agree with Mike S. As the season for dealers to visit Japan is approaching, maybe we can request each of our dealers to ask directly to the Japanese breeder about their water condition.

          Comment

          • #20

            hi Mike M

            yes its true, in soft water there is little room for GH (calcium and Magnesium) thus the diet is very important, feeding good food is very important, foods that have calcium phosphate added in will be fine to meet the kois requirements.

            best regards
            hong
            There is no such thing as a zero maintenance pond but the closer you get the more time to enjoy your koi. Soft low TDS water is the perfect pond water.
            http://www.tewakoi.com

            Comment

            • #21

              Brian et al:

              In Jan of this year, we had our water tested as a requirement before purchasing an All Clear Water Purifier... One on the tests was for KH hardness... The water from our tap and in the pond is a constant 3 dh... Ann Telford recommended that we increase this to 5.5 dh as she felt that a KH of 3dh would be detrimental to the koi's health over the long term...

              Hope this clears the confusion...Aloha! Mike

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              • #22

                Hi Mike,

                If your pond and mains water both have a KH of 3, why would you need to raise it? From these readings alone, it is obvious tht your pond is either low stocked, little fed, extrememely well maintained, or all three. So, were you given one good reason for raising it to 5.5???

                KH is there for the purpose of keeping the pH buffered. There is absolutely no benefit to raising it higher that necessary to achieve this. Some poeple have said that the filter needs KH... which is rubbish. The biomass don't feed on KH, but simply produce acids that try to lower the PH, which are then neutralised by the KH. The Koi don't use KH either. Sure, they need a little calcium, but this wouldn't be obtained from the KH anyway. This is soooo frustrating!

                Mike.
                www.yumekoi.com

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                • #23

                  Mike, it's about time you got off your back side and started posting.
                  Maurice.
                  PS I don't know if you guys are aware but Mike spends all day sat in his new van, listening to his new sound system!!
                  You have to allow for this as he's only a young lad :lol:
                  PPS It's a shame we can't get Anne to comment, it would be good to beat this one out, once and for good. I bet she's watching :?: .
                  http://www.koi-uk.co.uk

                  Comment

                  • #24

                    Maurice,

                    If I am in my van, driving around, then it's 'cos I'm wworking! Far better than lazing around in bed, methinks!?> ;-)

                    Age... 35, looking like 45, feeling like 55!

                    As for beating this one out... it's gonna happen real soon, and with all the science!... once and for all. Watch this space! ;-)

                    Mike.
                    www.yumekoi.com

                    Comment

                    • #25

                      BTW>>> I just turned Nisai!!! ;-)
                      www.yumekoi.com

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                      • #26

                        hey Mike

                        Looking forward to this epic debate, hope that once and for all many people can truly learn about keeping good water instead spending all their money on good kois only to ask the seller why they are no longer good.

                        hong
                        There is no such thing as a zero maintenance pond but the closer you get the more time to enjoy your koi. Soft low TDS water is the perfect pond water.
                        http://www.tewakoi.com

                        Comment

                        • #27

                          Hi all,

                          To make the discussion rolling further, I would like to introduce another instrument to make water soft (lower TDS level), that is 'demineraliser' (or 'deioniser') which I have been using for several months now. I decided to use this instead of RO because my water supply is limited. Price wise, it is also less expensive.

                          Demineraliser is capable to reduce TDS to below 5 ppm initially. It will increase daily as it gradually looses its effetiveness and finally the TDS is back to the original level. Before that happens, we can do 'regeneration' to the resin and the TDS will again drops to below 5 ppm.

                          One advantage of demineraliser is that, unlike RO plant, it produces no waste water. One drawback: it is very difficult control the TDS of fresh water added to the pond. So to keep constant TDS in the pond, we have to do by trial and error over a long period of time.

                          I would like to know whether anyone of you is familiar with this demineraliser.

                          For Mike Snaden,
                          Did the RO plant seller ever mentioned (like mine, did) this demineraliser to you when you discussed various water treatment methods before deciding on RO?

                          Comment

                          • #28

                            MikeS: I understand the concept that nitrifiers produce acid and that KH is needed to bind with the acid thus produced. However, I believe some alkalinity is needed for nitrifiers to work most efficiently, but cannot locate the materials on which I base that belief. I would agree the alkalinity can be relatively low and still support nitrification. Nitrification does occur in soft/acidic waters, as in some tropical aquarium species' native environments, but the high ratio of ammonium in that environment has to be considered.

                            I think the primary concern of most koikeepers has to be maintaining a KH level that prevents rapid acidification, i.e., pH crash. I would not disagree that optimal conditions are soft water with a moderate pH and sufficient in-flow of fresh water with those parameters to flush the system to avoid pH fluctuations. I would also agree that it is better to have the koi in stable water conditions than to tinker with the water chemistry, if only the source water is suitable for the koikeeper's purpose. That can be a challenge depending on goals and the nature of the source water.

                            I am looking forward to your "beating it out" with "all the science".

                            Comment

                            • #29

                              Kiky,
                              Tell me some more about you demineraliser unit. Is it a mixed bed Cation (SAC) and Anion (SBA) unit? If so, how difficult do you find the regeneration process to be? What about the effluent discharge after regeneration. How do you deal with it? I imagine the handeling of strong acids and bases has it's own problems as well.

                              I think one of the advantages of a RO unit is the fact that it requires no handling of dangerous chemicals of monitoring of waste discharges.

                              B.Scott
                              Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

                              Comment

                              • #30

                                Mike S:

                                Your Quote: "Age... 35, looking like 45, feeling like 55!"

                                Just wait until the day after you've mixed and poured 4 tons of concrete at age 61... then you'll know what it's like to be 100...

                                Re: Ann Telford's comments on KH 5.5 dh... I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I think she recommended that I raise the dh to that level to ensure that the biofilter functioned properly...

                                Re: Bio Filtration... I have a 70 gal, 7cuft TT built on what I think is your design (Based on an article by a Mike S, who I'm assuming is you)... My question is: Does the volume of water, in gph, going through the TT make a difference in performance? What would the optimum volume be? Water is coming from an Aquadyne bead filter after a savio skimmer/filter...

                                I ask this question because while ammonia is 0 & nitrites is <0.3, I can't get the Nitrates below 25ml/g, in the pond... Nitrates after the TT is 25 while it's 14ml/g after the Bakki Shower (Steve Castels blue bins w/Bac House Media from Momotaro) pH is 7.5-7.8 depending on time of day...ORP is 430, thanks to BS, all natural no PP...

                                Your and other's comments will be appreciated...

                                Aloha! Mike T

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