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Showa In Warm Climates

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  • #31

    Originally posted by MikeM
    Well, I have gotten diverted trying to learn about the climate of Taiwan ... curious what koi lead one to research. The globe shows Taiwan at the approximate latitude of Cuba and southern Florida. Closer to the Phillipines than to Japan. Of course, latitude influences climate, but does not necessarily control . So, I went searching for agricultural products. Seems Taiwan is quite diverse. There are mountains with more moderate climate than the low areas. However, among the crops of some economic importance are bananas and pineapples ... definitely subtropical. I think it would be a very nice place to live. I've always thought that if Florida had a couple of mountains it would be much improved.

    A worthwhile inquiry. The experiences of the koikeepers of Taiwan are likely more relevant to Florida koikeepers than the experiences of koikeepers in the northern U.S.
    Thanks for the lesson in knowledge in this subject is really shameful. And sorry to have gotten you diverted.

    Now that we have observed the effect of hot weather on sumi development, what about shimis? Is there a similar correlation as well?


    • #32

      I entered my Omosako shiro under the 80BU category and she managed to be placed 2nd. Attached is the latest photo of her.
      Attached Files


      • #33

        Congratulation Doc. She is still a tategoi. Chances are high she can be a future champion.SF


        • #34

          Both wonderful figure and pattern, with so much Sumi still to come. That is a koi to treasure.


          • #35

            fun thread! Thanks everyone! In a more recent article Omosako went to a show in Indonsia and was very impressed with the shiros in that climate. He was thinking otherwise as he prepared to leave.

            I think while conditions can be easily blamed for the preceived value of colors displayed, more and more recognition has to be focused on the genetics.
            Dick Benbow


            • #36

              Yonaguni Island, Japan

              The November, 1994 issue of Rinko (English) has an article concerning koikeeping on this Japanese island located near Taiwan. Typically, water temperature stays above 20C during the coolest part of the year. Due to the warmth year-round, the hobbyists interviewed observed:

              1. Their koi grew much faster and larger than on Japan proper.

              2. They feed without any fasting year-round.

              3. High protein food is given "twice to three times longer than in Japan proper".

              4. They have difficulty with heightening color, as occurs when koi experience cold seasons.

              5. The hobbyists were wanting to develop their own food for color heightening.

              6. Koi were fed at night to avoid the heat of the day. One hobbyist stated: "I try to give food at night, three or four times a day, starting from 8 p.m. until 2 a.m." The same hobbyist commented: "They are likely to grow bigger when they are given food at night than when they are in the daytime."

              The hobbyists commented that statements on proper koikeeping techniques in Japanese magazines were not necessarily appropriate on their island. They had the challenge of learning what was proper in their conditions.

              And, that is why I'll continue adding to this thread as I come across warm climate koikeeping articles. I am not endorsing these viewpoints. Just sharing them.


              • #37


                Thanks for the input. Its certtainly very informative especially for me & the others who live in tropical climate.
                I do not understand why they would have difficulty heightening their koi color in Taiwan. I suppose because of tremendous grow in a short period of time.
                I known quite a few hobbyists here who achieve good grow up to 40cm a year & still having good color.



                • #38


                  A couple of thoughts. First, color is relative. There seems to be a general observation that in warm climates red does not develop as well as in 4 season climates, but Sumi does fine. Twenty years ago, however, there was much talk about the need for cool seasons to get Sumi to rise. The improvement of Sumi over the past 20 years seems to have had major benefits for koikeepers in warm climates.

                  Which leads to the second thought: the article is from 1994. There has been much genetic improvement of the Hi in koi over the past dozen years ... more stable, deeper, thicker. The observations in 1994 may have been accurate, but not as applicable to today's better quality koi.

                  Third: Water quality. My personal obsewrvation has been that koi raised in Florida do not have Hi as intense and even as koi raised in a 4 season climate, but the ones raised in optimal water conditions come closer to meeting the standard set by the 4 season koi. As we have learned more about water maintenance, and certainly much has been learned (and become available) over the past dozen years, the more likely the differences between warm climate Hi and 4 season Hi have narrowed.

                  Fourth: We should never take what is written in an article (or a koi board) as a fixed truth. Einstein showed that all the conventional wisdom can be wrong, even if it accurately predicts virtually all that occurs. And, like history, the perspective from which something is written should be weighed before accepting or rejecting the conclusions.


                  • #39

                    Mike, great reading. keep it coming please.

                    besides from the hi and sumi, i think shiroji also benefits from lower temperature. it's warm all year long here in Indonesia, and fish do grow well as a result of year round heavy feeding, but the colors are compromised. i'll always remember a koi dealer (in spore, same type of weather) once bringing up a sansai shiro bekko a month before a koi show. the fish was yellowish with the sumi looking dull. he told me to take a good look, cause in a couple of weeks it'd look very different. he put the fish in his chilled pond, and sure enough, 2 weeks later i went to visit him again and the difference was spectacular. it was snow white and the sumi much improved.


                    • #40


                      This show that from 1994 till now over a period of 11 years, breeders have improved their koi tremendously. Of course I will not take what is written in an article as a fixed truth. It is just another opinion from a very experience koi-kichi. Even if it is true during this time it is still subject to change in the near future for all the reasons we know.



                      • #41

                        Originally posted by soelistyo
                        Mike, great reading. keep it coming please.
                        Originally posted by soelistyo
                        i'll always remember a koi dealer (in spore, same type of weather) once bringing up a sansai shiro bekko a month before a koi show. the fish was yellowish with the sumi looking dull. he told me to take a good look, cause in a couple of weeks it'd look very different. he put the fish in his chilled pond, and sure enough, 2 weeks later i went to visit him again and the difference was spectacular. it was snow white and the sumi much improved.


                        That is the reason why I do not intend to keep Shiro utsuri yet. I will need chillers or keep them in indoor pond with air-condition on 24/7.



                        • #42

                          i've seen many beautiful shiros, in my eye, in unchilled ponds in these parts. still show the unique shiroji typical of shiro and thick, rich sumi in many examples. actually, the more common problem i see here with shiros is the body shape rather than the colors or skin failing to shine through. it could be that your standards/expectations of koi or shiros must be higher than mine, judging from your decision, cause i don't conclude that a chiller (though i guess can only help) is a prerequisite for keeping shiros.


                          • #43

                            In the September 1995 issue of Rinko (English), there is an article concerning a rooftop pond in Okinawa, which has a subtropical climate. The author makes a point contrary to all I have read elsewhere, but for that very reason I found it of interest:

                            "Koi in Okinawa generally have brighter Hi. I wonder if there is a relation between the color of Hi and sunlight. In this matter, a koi dealer of Hong Kong also said that koi brought into Hong Kong from Japan easily gain the color of Hi there.

                            The koi in Okinawa may well have a peculiar color to them. I remember that bright color of Hi which Mr. Uehara's koi have."

                            There is insufficient information regarding foods used, bloodline of the koi observed or other data related to pigment to even speculate on reasons that might explain the observation. A photo makes clear that the pond in question was not even waist deep, unshaded and fully exposed to the sun. There is no reference to use of cooling equipment or even constant flow of fresh water, but perhaps water temperatures were being controlled by one means or another?

                            In the same issue, there is an article on koikeeping in Hong Kong which speaks of the ponds of three leading hobbyists. The design of one pond is reviewed in some detail, with a passing mention that the water temperature was controlled to be 15C from November through March, and 25-28C from April through October, with a two-month fast imposed. I would hesitate to draw generalized conclusions about warm climate koikeeping based on observations of koi kept in such a fully controlled environment.

                            As always in this thread, I am sharing information I come across and do not vouch for the accuracy.


                            • #44

                              the keeping of koi is in its infancy, and at this time anything that is veiwed one time ( or even thought to be seen) becomes fact to as many people as the person that saw it can convince.
                              And the reason is whatever the person thinks as well....and the hobby perpetuates/promotes this kind of "information gathering"


                              • #45

                                Ishigaki Koi Farm, Okinawa

                                I was traveling recently and had a chance to catch up on some reading. An article in the September, 1997 issue of English Rinko focused on a koi farm begun by Mamoru Kodama in 1993 in Okinawa. Kodama is best known in the West, of course, for the commercial success of Miyoshiike and the books he has published. In the article he explained his thinking behind having a koi farm in subtropical Okinawa:

                                "In building a farm, one of my top priorities is to choose a place under the best condition. Miyoshiike has a lot of suitable places for breeding koi such as Gifu prefecture, Mie prefecture, or Shizuoka prefecture around Miyoshiike's main shop in Nagoya. But the reason I dared have the koi farm in distant Ishigaki Island, Okinawa is that the island has an important good condition which mainlands of Japan do not have. That is, Ishigaki provides Nishikigoi with the best natural condition that the average temperature through a year is 24C, belonging to a subtropical climate.

                                "Ancestors of Nishikigoi originally came from Southeast Asia, subtropical zone. They came to Japan by way of China. and has been improved to beautiful koi for years. Though Nishikigoi has been actually improved in Niigata, which has the severest winter in Japan, a mild climate is better for the inherent character of Nishikigoi. The climate of Ishigaki meets Nishikigoi's character. Nishikigoi originally has a constitution to be able to breed three or four times a year. I thought that it should have been possible that same koi can breed several times a year under the climate of Ishigaki. I, therefore, started the farm in Ishigaki 1600 km away from our main shop."

                                Kodama continues to say that the Ishigaki Koi Farm oyagoi are spawned three times per year. For the first breeding the hatch "is over 95%... But when it comes to the 2nd time, it goes down to 60%, and the 3rd time, 30%." He then explains how he is using his Manda Nishki product to obtain higher hatch rates, but does not say use of the product actually worked.

                                I found this article interesting for several reasons. Kodama challenges the idea of Nishikigoi being a four season fish, but then gives data negating his proposition. I'd not heard of Ishigaki Koi Farm and certainly am not aware of it being known for producing quality koi. It seems the locale best fit the purpose of maximizing production, but Kodama goes on to say that culling is very strict with only 2,000 pieces kept out of 100,000-200,000 fry at the first culling, and only 70-100 females kept to be nisai, which he says are typically 60cm when harvested in October.

                                I am thinking this article is more commercial promotion than it purports to be. However, I'm posting this excerpt for whatever worth it may have in the theme of this thread. I think it amounts to no more than what was long ago discovered in Florida. A warm climate allows for high production and growth rates.
                                Last edited by MikeM; 07-02-2006, 09:14 AM. Reason: Correct typo


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