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  • #16

    I guess in the end we all take a 50/50 chance on what we buy. It's still fun to buy tosai or whatever age nishikigoi. I had alot of fish that didn't become what I wanted, but that's the hobby..
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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    • #17

      Hi Scott,

      The breeder of that Koi was supposedly Wakabayashi.

      I think that the odds are significantly improved, if you look at a prospective purchase with a very analytical eye. I'm not talking from an angle of patter, or where the pattern should or shouldn't be, but studying the Beni, skin, sashi, kiwa, and so on. You have to try and tear a Koi to pieces before buying it. But, bear the price tag in mind when doing so!
      www.yumekoi.com

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      • #18

        Mike,

        So now I await your latest and the feature on asagi,heh? I have memorized all your articles on your web site by heart. Probably magic water is my favorite. I think the japanese refer to it as saki!
        Dick Benbow

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        • #19

          Here is a nice nidan Kohaku that went wrong. This Koi was purchased as nissai and was in the pond for about one year. After about a year, the window on the head appeared suddenly. It developed within a week or so. The red has not returned to the head and the Koi remains like this - a reverse Tancho!
          Attached Files

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          • #20

            She was very nice, Dr. J. I see a maruzome-type kiwa on the first step, but not so apparent on the second step. Did she always have the maruzome?

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            • #21

              What's the bloodline of this Kohak? Would be interesting to know that even with the best bloodlines a koi could go "South".

              Originally posted by Dr J I Phillips
              Here is a nice nidan Kohaku that went wrong. This Koi was purchased as nissai and was in the pond for about one year. After about a year, the window on the head appeared suddenly. It developed within a week or so. The red has not returned to the head and the Koi remains like this - a reverse Tancho!
              The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

              Comment

              • #22

                It is interesting to me that this post titled 'Koi That Fail' has nearly 500 views in a short time and over 20 replies on a forum that normally discusses 'koi appreciation' instead of koi that have "gone South".

                Being from the South, I take some offense to this reference. Anyone know where that phrase comes from?

                With such a tiny percentage of koi spawned that make it through the many cullings and are grown to become an example of a variety that a breeder can sell to a dealer and then be purchased by a hobbyist........ for one of these very few chosen koi, such as Bob Hart's showa that went shiromuji or Dr. Phillip's kohaku above or for B. Scott's friend's kohaku to "go South" is a tremendous disappointment for the owner.

                Actually Dr. Phillips said his kohaku '"went wrong". Thank you Dr. Phillips. "Went wrong" sounds much better than "gone South" in my humble opinion. I'm sure Mike M., being from Florida, will second that.

                So few koi make it, some of these fail and that makes what is left all the more valuable. If it was easy, we'd be looking at tanks full of beautiful kohaku or showa at a store and shopping for one as easily as trying to pick out a pretty swordtail from an aquarium full of them at a pet shop. There's not much difference from one to the other in freshwater aquarium fish.

                I liked Bob Hart's reverse psychology when he said about 2 of his koi that 'went wrong':

                Originally posted by Bob Hart
                It is a real frustration when it happens though, both of these Koi were 'favorites' and Koi with future's. OK so I've found the reason - it's always the Koi you like best, so pretend you dont like them!!!!!
                Sounds like a good plan to me!

                Dale

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                • #23

                  Both kohaku posted give me a scary feeling, the head pattern on the first photo B.Scott posted has obviosly receded in the first photo, let alone the second.
                  Doc Jims kohaku, I'm sure when he bought did not look so 'iffy' but in the photo posted, the maruzome kiwa looks a little frightening.
                  Signs to look out for.

                  Here is a snap of a famous kohaku I own which shows you the signs to look out for with regard to kiwa breaking up.

                  Maurice.
                  http://www.koi-uk.co.uk

                  Comment

                  • #24

                    Excellent pic, Maurice.

                    Dale: "gone South" has at least two origins. First, in western cultures, South has been thought of as being "down", and on a graph a downward trend is generally a negative. Second, in the southern U.S., "gone South" had a historic negative connotation related to slavery, but I prefer not to think on that.

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                    • #25

                      Originally posted by MikeM
                      Excellent pic, Maurice.

                      Dale: "gone South" has at least two origins. First, in western cultures, South has been thought of as being "down", and on a graph a downward trend is generally a negative. Second, in the southern U.S., "gone South" had a historic negative connotation related to slavery, but I prefer not to think on that.
                      What ya all know about the South. I was Born In Valdosta GA (check out THAT state flag) and Raised in Montgomery AL ( the Auto tags used to have "The Heart of Dixie" written across the bottom of them before other states started making statements, and the three white high schools in Montgomery are Confederate President Jefferson Davis HS, The Southern State's Poet Laureate Sidney Lanier HS, and Confederate general Robert E. Lee HS...the "Black High School" was George Washington Carver HS. I graduated from Carver.)

                      And a boy in Kentuck ain't got no right to get his back up over a phrase he thinks is demeaning to US southerners. Got a good heritage up thar though....ridge runnin', moonshine, good family feudin', and some horses. But it ain't THE South.

                      I never took offense to the reference....hell Rebs use it all the time. Seems like some of us used to think when you were "headed south" you were getting sicker and were likely to be going south by about six feet physically (and alot more Spiritually if you didn't listen to the preacher).

                      That explanation with the "graph", seems like the saying has been around alot longer than one of them graph thingees.

                      AND NOW I LIVE IN FLORIDA. I find it amusing that people down here try to declare they have a "Southern Heritage"....Buncha Yankees. This State should be named, "South Yorkseyania."

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                      • #26

                        Ah, Luke, as a born Kentuckian, there is much we could discuss. Is there a Southern Heritage board somewhere?

                        Until then, let's call them "koi that went wrong". ... BTW, One more Rinko and I'll be thru the old mags I got from you. I've gotten behind!

                        Comment

                        • #27

                          Luke, put your birth certificate in your pocket, go over to Palatka, FL, park in front of the Dairy Queen on Friday night, and yell to the first car that drives up "Ya'll a Buncha Yankees".

                          With the birth certificate, you might get away alive. :>)

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                          • #28

                            South is relative. if you fell insulted by the phrase "down south" What are folks in Argentina suposed to think? South doesn't stop at the Gulf Coast boarder of the US ya know!
                            Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

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                            • #29

                              Originally posted by luke frisbee
                              What ya all know about the South. I was Born In Valdosta GA (check out THAT state flag) and Raised in Montgomery AL ( the Auto tags used to have "The Heart of Dixie" written across the bottom of them before other states started making statements, and the three white high schools in Montgomery are Confederate President Jefferson Davis HS, The Southern State's Poet Laureate Sidney Lanier HS, and Confederate general Robert E. Lee HS...the "Black High School" was George Washington Carver HS. I graduated from Carver.)

                              And a boy in Kentuck ain't got no right to get his back up over a phrase he thinks is demeaning to US southerners. Got a good heritage up thar though....ridge runnin', moonshine, good family feudin', and some horses. But it ain't THE South.

                              I never took offense to the reference....hell Rebs use it all the time. Seems like some of us used to think when you were "headed south" you were getting sicker and were likely to be going south by about six feet physically (and alot more Spiritually if you didn't listen to the preacher).

                              That explanation with the "graph", seems like the saying has been around alot longer than one of them graph thingees.

                              AND NOW I LIVE IN FLORIDA. I find it amusing that people down here try to declare they have a "Southern Heritage"....Buncha Yankees. This State should be named, "South Yorkseyania."
                              Hey Luke,

                              Yeah, I am in Kentucky, but as a young man a company I worked for sent me further south to Tennessee where I lived for a few years, then on down to Birmingham, Alabama, where I lived for 10 more years before coming back to Kentucky. I've lived in Michigan, too. Being 'Southern' is more of an attitude than where you park your carcass. It has been associated with a lot of genteel, hospitable qualities, but a lot of red neck, white trash country bumpkins are associated with it, too.

                              BTW, I almost got put in jail by a couple of local cops in Valdosta, Georgia, many years ago when a friend and I landed a private plane at the Valdosta Airport in the middle of the night. We didn't do anything wrong. We just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. But that's another story too long for telling here. Those cops in Valdosta can get nasty! Especially after midnight!

                              Originally posted by B.Scott
                              South is relative. if you fell insulted by the phrase "down south" What are folks in Argentina suposed to think? South doesn't stop at the Gulf Coast boarder of the US ya know!
                              As B. Scott says, Argentina is a hell of a lot further south than what folks in the USA refer to as 'the South'. With as many participants on Koi Bito from outside the US as there are from the US, regions described by 'direction' are pretty senseless.

                              Actually, B., I wasn't insulted by the reference to 'going south'. I've heard it used before. I guess I just rattled off a comment where I shouldn't have. Look at all the typing several of us have done as a result!

                              My four step kohaku went south, went wrong, went shitty and went shiromuji. Pick the one you like. They are all bad!

                              Dale

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                              • #30


                                My four step kohaku went south, went wrong, went shitty and went shiromuji. Pick the one you like. They are all bad!

                                !! NOT A GOOD THING!
                                Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

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