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shusui progress

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  • shusui progress

    i posted a pic of this shusui when i bought it back in February (rudely jumping on someone else's thread then:

    MikeM and Dick Benbow kindly gave me some comments then, so i'd like to provide some progress.

    the pic i posted previously ( was taken in Feb when it was purchased at 25cm. this new pic was taken last weekend, now 42cm. Mike predicted then that more hi would fill in, so the hi specks wouldn't look as bad. i didn't notice until i re-read the old thread, and then decided to compare the new and old photos. it seems he's right again, i think the hi is extending towards where the specks where. i didn't know such things could happen (sorry Mike, didn't take your comment too seriously then, as i never experienced hi "coming up" before. needless to say, i'm happily surprised.).

    the photo is a bit compromised cause it was taken at night and i had to use a flash. the fish is not as white as it might appear in the pic, still a slightly yellowish head. but i think it's getting cleaner.

    still a male, but so far still gives me enjoyment.

    please do comment, it might help me pick out a better shusui in future.
    Attached Files
  • #2

    the scalation is really pretty and well aligned. i am surprised to hear more red is coming up. that's an asagi hapenstance not shusui. they usually loose it as opposed to gaining it. Nice koi and thanks for the update!
    Dick Benbow


    • #3

      Welcome back, Dick!! ...Should've known a blue fish would get you posting again. Interesting comment that Shusui generally do not have increasing Hi. The reason I thought there might be more Hi to appear was the way the speckles trailed in a "brushstroke" along the flank in line with the thicker Hi. I have watched Hariwake with flank brushstroke patterning increase color over a period of years, with the spots of color becoming joined, and some how gained an impression that flank patterning is subject to increasing that way. (I can't say I've ever read anything particular about it.)

      Soelistyo: You have certainly put weight on him. Definitely improved. I am liking him more. The scale alignment remains good (although not perfect) and I like the soft bluish-white color. You've not had the head darken and the yellowish tone is not too strong... maybe he will soften to a nice ivory on the head? Since it is male you may not get him to a huge size, but male koi are so often the more graceful swimmers in a pond. I think he would make quite an impression in the pond ... does he dash at pellets, but hover out of the way of the crowd at feeding time?


      • #4

        Originally posted by dick benbow
        i am surprised to hear more red is coming up. that's an asagi hapenstance not shusui.
        Hi Dick,

        I noted that Hosokai said the same thing in Koi-bito mag and it could be genes related. My shusui had only 1/3 red but it is now 2/3 red and it is still a tosai!



        • #5

          I like the clean scalation down the back. I had a Hosokai Shusui during a trip to Japan. It to me was very clean and had good scalation as well. My last trip to Niigata I didnt see any shusui lets me know its tough to find.

          It's a living creature (chit happens)


          • #6

            thanks Dick (great to see you posting again), Mike, & Joe for the comments on the shusui.

            Mike, the fish does dash at pellets at times, but in general is well behaved and not as jumpy as my impression of shusui would be. i'm not expecting a very large koi this being a male, but on the bright side there's smaller chance of me spoiling the body with my heavy feeding(potbelly being a problem with a few tosai i'm growing) . i'm starting to like shusui (though nowhere near Dick's apparent obsession) and today went to check out a few tosais from Sakai at the local dealer.
            one of them really caught my eye, beatiful clean light blue, clear head, even scaling. best part was the body/head which really gave me an impression of great balance and potential BIG koi. The price quoted was around than USD1,200 which was a bit too steep imho but anyway someone else bought the fish. too bad it was bought by an out of towner otherwise i'd be tempted to keep track of the fish's progress just for my own education cause it was one of the rare occasions that i had confidence in my feeling about the future of such a small fish.

            meantime i'll keep u guys posted on this one if anything interesting develops.


            • #7

              i probably shouldn't be bowling the fish this often, but had someone down to give some treatment to a small injury on my chagoi, and couldn't resist measuring the others. the shusui is now 46.5cm which means it's put on more around 20cm in half a year. i'm really happy with the koi. doesn't snatch at food much nowadays, and starting to clean up even further.
              Attached Files


              • #8

                looks like he's stretching from the body shape! still gonna be a nice plump shape for a male tho and the forehead has come a long way.I believe you have a real winner there! In fact I'm looking for one just like that! I looked at two tosai yesterday but they weren't even close to yours. I'm hopeful that quality koi will have some nice ones I can see when I fly back there in October to watch my asagi come out of the grow ponds. thanks for posting!!!!!!
                Dick Benbow


                • #9

                  Ditto what Dick said.

                  ...looking good.


                  • #10

                    hi everyone, back again for a bit.. ive just started the spawning season here in australia.
                    ive got a photo of the shusui that i spawned and im hoping you can tell me which ones might be anygood.

                    how far up the body is the hi supposed to go? i thought it was halfway up.

                    ive recently tried strip spawning and using one male to fertilise, im hoping someone can tell me if i should exclude some of the male fish form contributing genetic or wouldnt it matter much seeing as they are all likely siblings, yes dick, they are blue fish. i thought of you when i took a pic..

                    the females i have at hand have been on the farm for many years but the little males are likely ones that i had chosen at six inches a coupl of years back.
                    they arent big fish casue theyve been caged up but i have a female which is called SUB which is probably around 85cm. shes not anywhere near a perfect example but im thinking she should throw out something decent.

                    may take a photo of her later, i didnt spawn from her yet as she was in another net that i left for the next pond.

                    so can someone tell me which boys to use on her?
                    Attached Files


                    • #11

                      The male that you photo'd singularly is as good as you have for a parent.

                      Clean head, nice red ,pretty scalation. The toughest is always trying to get the scales down by the tail to be better aligned. I would use that one exclusively as your breeder. That way you'll know the results in one season whether he contributed to the sucess.

                      Does the female have more or less red? Does she has moto-aka on her pecs?

                      when you sembetsu (cull) you primary objective will be to look for the matching scallation either side of the dorsal.You probably won't be able to tell much for 60 days. that's the problem with asagi/shusui. You will get hannah and hi shusui both and and keep a little of both. Keep in mind for the future that the blue will slip away after 3-4 years and the red in shusui about that time does also. having strong red on the female is not a bad thing. Try and stay away from any colored redundant scales with both parents. that's the biggest downfall.

                      wish we lived closer, I'd give you a hand! Let us hear on the top side of the world watch your progress as our effort go dormant with winter.

                      Good luck!
                      Dick Benbow


                      • #12

                        Most shusui I have seen darken up as the get large. This one is very clean. What is your pH at in the pond?


                        Keep it simple, keep it straight


                        • #13

                          the PH used to fall below 7.0 until 3-4 months ago when i put in crushed oyster shells and coral chips into my filter.
                          it is now consistently 7.4-7.5.


                          • #14

                            That's what I thought a nice low pH.

                            Keep it simple, keep it straight


                            • #15

                              can someone tell me how to start a new thread?
                              thats the only reason ive jumped in on you soelistyo, sorry.

                              pH in my pond is around 8.5 bore water. plenty of calcium.

                              thanks a lot dick for the advice..though i dont know what hannah is? im ussually a goldfish boy but they bore me a bit now..
                              you mention the two types that i will get that i should keep some of both..what am i looking for in the second type? in past ive likely sold almost everything as feeders by 60 days except kept some like the one ive pictured.

                              my fish seem to have some reflective scales here and there on the sides of the fish.

                              ive got some asagi as well and ill probably take a group photo and get your idea on which ones to breed together from those as well.
                              i had tried to breed from them a couple of years ago but the girls had already spawned.

                              all fish stock came from japan around 15 years ago and havent been mixed with other farm stock since.

                              would it be unwise to let both types of fry(shusui and asagi) into the same fingerling rearing pond? maybe id be making it harder when culling or do they show their differences between type at 60 odd days?

                              ive noticed when i let gin rin go with other types all the gin rin get eaten up or something..

                              thanks very much.


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