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  • Air in pond

    I would like this thread to stay in Main cause feel some people that will answer this does not visit contruction forum alot.
    When i built my pond i did not include an aerated drain due to my pond indoors and afraid aerated drain would add to my humidity issues.

    pond is basic U shape 17 ft wide 23 feet long.top of U is waterfall area across the whole way.no returns any where else.
    bottom drain sits 2/3 the way from waterfall area about (17 ft) floor slopes from 4ft to 6 ft at drain.skimmer sits on left side curve of U.

    okay so now feel i need more air as i always read on here.now i have thought about just adding airstone on top of drain(even thinking soaker hose round top few times(15 inch dome top) which will help with the works of bottom drain
    BUT
    is that enough?

    even thought of skipping the drain air and just dropping airstones around sides say 4 opposite side of skimmer and 3 on skimmer side so ripples will not effect skimmer alot(remember inside so do not get leaf problems so not huge issue with that)
    and do i drop them to the bottom,sides curve about 18 inches+ to bottom just dirt and liner pond.
    AND
    what airstones do i use and size of pump?
    i see in japan beeder pics airstones just sitting on bottom but they have enough koi in small bottom area to keep waste moving.

    So guess all in all i am looking to see what other people have done only air on drains and did you had more around outside.
    do i air on top of dome the 2 more towards top of the U few say 3-4 feet away from waterfall wall?

    sure redo will include more drains that are aerated but for now and this is what i need to work with.
    thanks to all that keep answering my same questions i have been asking this summer(Steve C.). just need to make sure of my purchases and doing it right so i will not hear "you are always changing things".
    just looking for optiions people have done and what is good and what they would change.water is getting cooler so will be my project in a month or 2 when i stop feeding and will be alright adding alot of new cool water(if doing air on drain will lower so i can work.no suba gear and wimp in cold water)
    Paul Korf

    member of:
    Midwest Pond and Koi Society
    Louisville Koi club
    IKONA
  • #2

    Do a TT or shower and you may not need the air pumped into the water. Measuring the DO level will tell you for sure. You want DO level as close to saturation as possible for the given air temp.

    The other function of an air dome is creating currents that sweep the bottom debris to the BD. If the bottom is staying clean...maybe no need indoors.
    Koi keeping is not a belief system; it is applied science with a touch of artistry.

    Comment

    • #3

      Originally posted by pskorf View Post
      I would like this thread to stay in Main cause feel some people that will answer this does not visit contruction forum alot.
      When i built my pond i did not include an aerated drain due to my pond indoors and afraid aerated drain would add to my humidity issues.

      pond is basic U shape 17 ft wide 23 feet long.top of U is waterfall area across the whole way.no returns any where else.
      bottom drain sits 2/3 the way from waterfall area about (17 ft) floor slopes from 4ft to 6 ft at drain.skimmer sits on left side curve of U.

      okay so now feel i need more air as i always read on here.now i have thought about just adding airstone on top of drain(even thinking soaker hose round top few times(15 inch dome top) which will help with the works of bottom drain
      BUT
      is that enough?

      even thought of skipping the drain air and just dropping airstones around sides say 4 opposite side of skimmer and 3 on skimmer side so ripples will not effect skimmer alot(remember inside so do not get leaf problems so not huge issue with that)
      and do i drop them to the bottom,sides curve about 18 inches+ to bottom just dirt and liner pond.
      AND
      what airstones do i use and size of pump?
      i see in japan beeder pics airstones just sitting on bottom but they have enough koi in small bottom area to keep waste moving.

      So guess all in all i am looking to see what other people have done only air on drains and did you had more around outside.
      do i air on top of dome the 2 more towards top of the U few say 3-4 feet away from waterfall wall?

      sure redo will include more drains that are aerated but for now and this is what i need to work with.
      thanks to all that keep answering my same questions i have been asking this summer(Steve C.). just need to make sure of my purchases and doing it right so i will not hear "you are always changing things".
      just looking for optiions people have done and what is good and what they would change.water is getting cooler so will be my project in a month or 2 when i stop feeding and will be alright adding alot of new cool water(if doing air on drain will lower so i can work.no suba gear and wimp in cold water)
      I do not think I have ever seen a pond with "aerated drains". I know what it is, just do not see it.

      I do sometimes see a pond with air stones. Sometimes in the pond, sometimes in the filter, and sometimes both.

      What do I use for more aeration? Shower filter.

      Comment

      • #4

        i will say my pond is pretty clean on bottom no problem what so ever there.(feel food is huge factor here in helping)
        guess i should have should also not doing it for the O2 level but have not measured but feel i amgood there with medo 80 driving the K1 filter and with a 17 ft waterfall area it is small skimming of water over the rocks into pond and once an hour turnover in pond also.

        looking for more O2 if possible (water never gets above 76 or so in summer) BUT
        looking for excerize of the koi to makemore of tail tube for showing.
        Paul Korf

        member of:
        Midwest Pond and Koi Society
        Louisville Koi club
        IKONA

        Comment

        • #5

          On my pond I avoided the aerated bottom drains as I think they obscure my view of the Koi. Sure you can turn them off... and then the fish are not acting normally. Maybe if you have a timer they grow accustomed to both with and without air coming from the bottom drains.

          I do think oxygen is _very_ important on a Koi pond, I have two sources of air on my pond. I have air on my English style bio chambers AND I have a waterfall with lots of short turbulent drops.

          Best choices for aeration are normally wet/dry type filters (showers & TTs) or gas exchangers like turbulent waterfalls. Moving the pond inside could create humidity issues. Is there any way to have a shower/TT outside the building and then plumb it into the pond room?

          Brad

          Comment

          • #6

            Paul,
            One of the best and easiest methods to improve water quality is by adding more air. A common rule of thumb is to add 20 lpm per 1000 gallons or aeration via airstones or other type of aeration bubble devices.. Waterfalls vary in their ability to aerate depending on many factors. Also strategic placement of aeration can increase water circulation and bringing water from the bottom of the pond to the top. If you go to Japan you will be amazed at the amount of aeration in breeder sales facilities and also in hobbyist garden ponds. Usually the air has to be turned down or off to see koi clearly. For many years when Japanese breeders visited my pond they would advise me to add more aeration.

            My pond is 9,000 gallons and I have a large waterfall. I also have a large 12 cf trickle tower with a 100 lpm air pump providing counter airflow.. Plus I have two large moving bed filters aerated with a 150 lpm pump. THe area behind the water fall has a 80 lpm pump feeding 6 air stones. Plus I have six airstone along one side of my pond fed by another 100 lpm pump. So I have in addition to the waterfall and large trickle tower 410 lpm of air being pumped into my system. Last few times I was visited by Japanese breeders I was told very good enough air now.
            Disclosure:These opinions are based on my experience and conversations with persons I consider accomplished koi keepers and do not reflect the viewpoint of any organization.

            Comment

            • #7

              wife will not let me kick car out of garage.plus minus 20 winter temps keep it from really outside

              not looking for extra filter or O2 part just looking for exercise for the koi.
              judges say i need more exercise in my koi they have a little belly on them.
              Paul Korf

              member of:
              Midwest Pond and Koi Society
              Louisville Koi club
              IKONA

              Comment

              • #8

                Paul,
                As I have said here, other forums and live, air added at the top of a bottom drain (either through airstones or diffuser), enhances the speed at which solids are removed from the pond and to filtration. While it doing so does add air (duh), it is the currents created that expedite the removal of these solids. You can ask our buddy with the "Shack" what his results were once I finally talked him into giving it a try. The longer organics stay in the pond, the longer they are left to decay and deteriorate the water qualty. What may appear "clean" can still be improved upon.

                Do NOT put airstones at the edges or corners of the pond since the currents then created will pull solids away from the drain along the floor to the sides/corners.
                The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
                CKHPA

                Comment

                • #9

                  Originally posted by schildkoi View Post
                  Paul,
                  As I have said here, other forums and live, air added at the top of a bottom drain (either through airstones or diffuser), enhances the speed at which solids are removed from the pond and to filtration. While it doing so does add air (duh), it is the currents created that expedite the removal of these solids. You can ask our buddy with the "Shack" what his results were once I finally talked him into giving it a try. The longer organics stay in the pond, the longer they are left to decay and deteriorate the water qualty. What may appear "clean" can still be improved upon.

                  Do NOT put airstones at the edges or corners of the pond since the currents then created will pull solids away from the drain along the floor to the sides/corners.
                  i know you discussed with me in great length this year and last year
                  BUT
                  i wonder if it will be enough with just the one drain and at the place it is.
                  I still picture your pond and the way the water moves with 1 aerated drain but feel i might lose the movement with the difference in size and placement of my drain.
                  with the Batemanns their pond slopes pretty good with one drain in center so getting good motion from end to end being in center. where mine is not centered


                  I keep playing with my winter pump for the goldfish pond.had a rubber membrane stick created a meduim size buble(my guess) and it created a uprising in surface and with it created like a twister as air came up and off center due to only being 6 ft from one end and about 17 other way hence why of center.
                  now this summer i put on about a foot of soaker hose on same pump and tonight thru it on drain in pond.feel it is producing a littler size bubble and not getting the big upwelling in surface.getting about same "off center" as air comes up as other diffuser.so guessing maybe current is the same.
                  also side note the zip stripping soaker hose would be 18 -24+ inches vs 1 ft now and maybe a little more air with longer hose(just a guess no proof yet)(great time of year to buy cheap soaker hose)

                  so hence another question is more little bubbles moving more water then less meduim size bubbles same pump.another person told me this summer more smaller bubbles(not real small like an O2 diffuser) will move more water then meduim bubbles.

                  man this stuff is hard to explain on internet over what i see live and trying to explain what i see.

                  so agree about drain and such but will 1 be enough?
                  and if i did drain and did some side air say only half down.
                  i know 1 answer already -will be better then i have now
                  and guess i could have an area for them to exercise and more of a resting area.got dark on me(wife slaving me again) and can not sit here and watch them and way they act(tomorrow afternoon/night).course when i am in room they just think i am going to feed them. so i look through window here from computer.
                  Paul Korf

                  member of:
                  Midwest Pond and Koi Society
                  Louisville Koi club
                  IKONA

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    I run two stones in a 25 x 15 tank. I find that they clog very quickly so having two allows me to keep a bit of a safety feature on the blower. Have clean duplicates I change every 4 weeks. No air on BD. Water boils, less view but too bad...fish love it.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Paul , What about adding some kind of Venturi Device , maybe next to the waterfall? This would/could also cause a increase flow toward your Bottom drain (s) if positioned correctly.
                      President : GLK&GS
                      Officer : NMZNA
                      Certified Judge : AKJA

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Originally posted by HEADACHE6 View Post
                        Paul , What about adding some kind of Venturi Device , maybe next to the waterfall? This would/could also cause a increase flow toward your Bottom drain (s) if positioned correctly.
                        Ahhhh, another one of my favorite topics...venturis. Lesson one, what does air do in water? Rise, correct? So how can a venturi add current towards a botttom drain when the air which is sucked into the flow rises?

                        Lesson two, Force = mass X Acceleration. Although the mass is accelerated through a smaller oriface, the mass is also reduced and with the added back pressure on the pump created, the mass is reduced further and thus less force is actually being applied to the ppond for its currents. Same principle hold true for Eductors.
                        The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. [email protected]
                        CKHPA

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Originally posted by ricshaw View Post
                          I do not think I have ever seen a pond with "aerated drains". I know what it is, just do not see it.
                          Here's a link to pix of ours, Richard.

                          http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/main-f...in-covers.html

                          FYI: The sweeping action of debris to drain has been noticeably improved.

                          Would also like to believe the additional currents have increased exercise for the occupants.

                          Best wishes,
                          Don Chandler
                          Member: AKCA, ZNA, KoiUSA

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Originally posted by schildkoi View Post
                            Ahhhh, another one of my favorite topics...venturis. Lesson one, what does air do in water? Rise, correct? So how can a venturi add current towards a botttom drain when the air which is sucked into the flow rises?

                            And what is the "Flow" made of Steve? Water , water that isn't going to rise 100% with the air, correct? I'm not suggesting that this will sweep the bottom of his pond toward the drain , but may aid to a certain degree.

                            My focus was adding Air to his pond , not the removal of solids.
                            President : GLK&GS
                            Officer : NMZNA
                            Certified Judge : AKJA

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              i was going to add just a couple returns to the pond down on bottom when doing pond.
                              chickened out with when hole was dug was pushing the position in according to walk way(entrance from garage to house) the dirt seemd to crunmble and was afraid would crumble the pond to another 6-12 inches longer which is not bad put would make walk way VERY narrow.

                              just do not think add venturi is in works also and i am always scared about anything sticking out in pond for koi to hit themselves on cause you know it will be the koi you have waited for for a few years will be the one to do it.
                              Paul Korf

                              member of:
                              Midwest Pond and Koi Society
                              Louisville Koi club
                              IKONA

                              Comment

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