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Momotara Pond Design with Bakki Shower

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  • Momotara Pond Design with Bakki Shower

    In the Koi-bito DVD on Momotaro, Mr. Maeda said the simple design is the best design. I quite agree with what he said. It made a lot of sense intuitively.

    I would like to get a good understanding of how the 1500 ton pond was designed, built, etc. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to go to Japan yet, so, please, those who are had been to Momotaro, share your understanding.

    Thanks in advance.
    charlie
  • #2

    As far as my understanding the pond has a water runway built around it in the runway are the smaller sized bacteria house. Since the video there has been more bakki showers installed on the other end of the 1500t pond. Mike Sneaden is more informative on this you might want to PM him in regards to this in detail. The key to this system is massive water changes everyday and the more flow you get on the bacteria house the better it works.
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

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    • #3

      Hi Aquitori,

      Thanks for the info. When I built my first major pond(about 10000g in 2001, due to budget constraint at that point in time, I did it pretty much DIY except pumps, uv and liner. It was a 30'x11'x4' liner pond with a concrete block filter bank with 4 chambers. Two 4" bottom drain goi into the first setltling chamber. Now I recently moved and building a pond, it seems to get more complicated.

      charlie

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      • #4

        When I was walking on those runways I had though they were all full of Jmat. Along with bakki showers... ????

        Joe
        It's a living creature (chit happens)

        Comment

        • #5

          Originally posted by keokoi
          When I was walking on those runways I had though they were all full of Jmat. Along with bakki showers... ????

          Joe

          Naw I don't think you'll find one piece of JMAT there. I could be wrong but when I was there didn't see any.
          The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

          Comment

          • #6

            When I was there I didnt look. Too busy trying to look at koi. But I had thought I heard JR say something about Jmat. Anyhow could be wrong lets let Mike Snaden tell the story after all he is adopted brother.... LOL
            It's a living creature (chit happens)

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            • #7

              Originally posted by keokoi
              When I was there I didnt look. Too busy trying to look at koi. But I had thought I heard JR say something about Jmat. Anyhow could be wrong lets let Mike Snaden tell the story after all he is adopted brother.... LOL
              Me I was looking at koi and got kinda tired of the prices, I went to go look for some BBQ and found bacteria house as far as the eyes can see. Mike Snaden Maeda should break it down for us...
              The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

              Comment

              • #8

                Didn't Brian mention (on the Koi-Bito DVD) that the side chambers were originally jmat but were being converted to all Bakki?

                So they might have been jmat in the past (traditional design) but are now Bakki.

                Comment

                • #9

                  Originally posted by aquitori
                  Naw I don't think you'll find one piece of JMAT there. I could be wrong but when I was there didn't see any.
                  A friend in Bay Area just installed the Bakki Shower 2 weeks ago.
                  There is no JMAT at all.

                  Thx --Dinh

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    If this is of any help, following this link you will find and article by Mike Snaden on this subject
                    http://www.tewakoi.com/Articles.htm
                    I can see some constraints to apply Maeda's design by ordinary hobbyist.
                    His 1500 tons system seems to work pretty well, but is protected by a huge greenhouse (from low temperatures and inflow of dead leaves, dirt etc.)
                    Bakki showers will lower the water temperature significantly in an outdoor pond, that is a big shortcoming when applied in countries like UK, Germany, etc. Conversely, I guess it can be excellent for ponds in countries having a tropical climate.
                    Besides, the function of the system seems to rely in two critical points: massive water circulation and water changes. The first point seems to imply a higher conpsumtion of electricity, the second a higher consumption of water, but maybe I'm completely wrong.
                    I wouldn't feel happy witnessing a trend of increasing energy and water consumption in our hobby nowadays. I'd rather prefer to think about sophisticated (if necessary) but efficient systems that might be considered enviromentally friendly and sustainable. If Mr. Maeda ideas of pond and filter design really help to progress in this direction, then that's GREAT. But please explain it to me, I can't convince myself.
                    I believe that for one standard hobbyist pond, a filtrations system composed by an eficient sieve + a efficient bead filter and optionally a trickle tower would do a pretty good and efficient work with very low maintenace and small footprint. But please correct me if I'm wrong.
                    One interesting point is that Mr. Maeda recomends to place the UV clarifier before the biological filter. According to him, this way the beneficial bacteria in the filter may colonize also the pond, and bad bacteria in the pond or in the settlement chamber wouldn't reach the biofilter. I understand this is a hypothesis, to my knowledge nobody has carried out true scientific and well designed experiments to check whether it is better to place the UV clarifier before or after. You know that most type of bacteria are extremely abundant and widespread. As you know, many precautions are taken to avoid bacterial contamination in labs and operating rooms in hospital.
                    On the other hand, it has been claimed that bacteria house breaks water clusters by virtue of infrared radiation emited by the ceramic material. I can't understand this. As far as I know, any solid is able to produce infrared radiation depending on its temperature. A rock or a wall heated by the sun will do it, sometimes even hours after the sunset. Some kind of internal heat is neccesary to produce infrared radiation.
                    If this is correct, I can understand that the ceramic material produces infrared rays when it is still hot after coming out of the kiln. However I can't see how bacteria house that has been soaked in the bakki showers for hours can keep producing infrared radiation once cooled.
                    Can someone with direct experience with bakki showers explain this?
                    Diego
                    Diego Jordano
                    Cordoba, Spain
                    A.E.K. web site http://www.elkoi.com
                    pers. web site http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Diego,

                      Don't hold your wind or your water while your waiting for an explaination. I have never seen one yet and it has been poo=pooed by many respected "authorities".



                      But do me a favor and ask yourself while cliff neal just won the UK national with the same koi and system he had from the year before. Could there be something to it or is it just hype? He has done an excellent job ( albeit expensive) to build and filter the pond he has. You might want to get some of the KB articles out and reread them that featured him and his system. I still run my j mat heavily aerated vortexes along with a 3 stacker of bacteria house media and i have noticed an improvement now after a year with a pretty good system already! I do know of a well respected california dealer who runs the showers with bio balls and is very happy with the results.

                      So kinda make up your mind to try it or not. But not until you've re-read the KB article with Cliff's article!
                      Dick Benbow

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        I will not even try to explain it. The Bakki Shower thread on this forum raised all these questions with no real resolution.

                        Nonetheless, everyone I know with the Bakki Shower claims great improvement in water quality, less health issues and increased appetites. So, when I was planning my pond, I decided to get one. I view it as providing the benefits of a trickle tower with greater water volume being processed than is typical of standard TT designs. I am processing about 5,000 gallons per hour through a small unit. Standard TT design would require a huge physical plant to handle that much water. Also, compare it to a de-gassing system such as are used in commercial aquaculture food fish production... far more baffles created by the filter media and multiple troughs than in the typical de-gassing design.

                        I like the notion of using multiple sorts of filtration, because each affects the water in different ways. I would not use the Bakki Shower by itself; but, then, neither does Maeda. Originally J-mat and now Bacteria House in submerged application on a scale few koikeepers could emulate.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          I heard that with that new wonder media there is and increasing need for j mat, for guests to wipe their feet on before entering the bacteria house !
                          " I'd rather a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy "

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                          • #14

                            I also heard of the so called NEW latest and greatest thing to come out of Japan which are Bio Balls of some sort made of Titanium? Has anyone else heard or have any information on this new filter media?

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              In terms of Bakki shower, I can attest the benefits, HUGE appetite! Another thing I noticed is the orp reading. After I moved at the end of Feb 05, I built a 2000 gallon concrete block pond (above ground) set it up with a double wide 4 stack Bakki shower. My fish load are extremely heavy, they were in two ponds in my old house, one 10000g and one 7000g. Total number are about 80ish ranging from 8 to 28 inches. 13 over 20". Now all of them are in this 2000G pond. So heavy is an understatement.

                              This pond is filled with water on Apil 30th and all big fish are moved over on the same day. 30ish above 15". I put a bag of k1 media seeded from my old pond in the top tray. The kois were doing great in it with the Bakki. After a few days, I was thinking, at the present situation, the only thing I can do is to add more filtration. So, I added a nexus 300 with answer to the system. All these equipment are for the main pond which is still in progress. By the end of next week, I decided to move the rest of the herd.

                              The pond has been running for about two months now, except a few that were sick, ulcers, the rest a doing great. I even think they grew quite a bit during the past two months, you know I cannot resit feeding. Of course it is very controlled amount.

                              About a month ago, I was reading a thread about RO and stuff and it reminded me that I need to test my water. I am not much of test guy, but I did pull out PH, ORP meters. PH was 7.9, Orp was 160. I would say about 3 week ago, the ORP reading went up to over 400. It stay over 300 to 400 ever since.

                              So, my guesses are both filters are mature and doing a good job.

                              Comment

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