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  • Tobies

    Just wondering if any of you have noticed if tobies stay the biggest koi or do the smaller koi catch up with them. Do the tobies have better bodies and make bigger koi in the long run.
  • #2

    Tobies definitely have great bodies, but the pattern/color usually sucks. They do not usually remain the largest for very long. If they were to make it through the cull (which they seldom do), the lowered density would let others soon catch up with them.

    -steve hopkins


    • #3

      Hay Steve , Im glad I caught you online, I put some ferterlizer in my pond and was wonder would that help with the ponds holding water. I only put six cup in the pond as I dont have extra air right now. I could put another pump in the pond if need be I just dont want to it I dont have to.


      • #4

        Hi Judy,
        the most prominent toby out of my 2004 breeding was catched up by a very nice Kohaku. This one became the biggest. Unfortunately jumped out and died in the greenhouse, 2 days after the move from the terraced roof. I kept the other koi and it is still the bigest among the few siblings that I still keep.
        In this breeding season I have got some few toby. Again, one of them is a nice Kohaku, but he/she is an evil! During the culling process he/she swallowed a small Sanke in the bowl! Only the tail was out of her mouth. I managed to catch her and make her release the small Sanke, still alive. Incredibly, she went on trying to capture and eat other fish in the bowl. What a beast!
        After reducing the density it seems that canibalism is no longer a big issue.
        Many fry are now in the range of 5-6 cm at the age of aproximately 80 days, the biggest measuring 8-9 cm. Since the pools hold just 1500 liters and the density has been very high until mid june, the growing rate was not the best possible. After culling, the growth during the last two weeks has been quite amazing.
        Diego Jordano
        Cordoba, Spain
        A.E.K. web site
        pers. web site


        • #5

          KFG: You'll find that some people refer to all the faster growing fry as tobies, and others refer only to the ugly fast growers. Need to be clear what people mean sometimes.

          BradyB shared an observation that among the fast growers are ones which will slow down to the point that the more average fry catch up; but there are some that have been born with "the complete package" ... the genes to be big, powerful koi worthy of any pond.

          Learning which to keep in low numbers to maximize the potential is the goal. I think that is a lesson that can be learned only through knowing your fish.


          • #6

            it used to be that tobies were immediately culled by japanese breeders because of their disposing of their brothers and sisters. It was thought at the time they wouldn't turn out anyway and that a weaker future GC would get goblbed up.

            truth now is that they can turn out just as nice as some average or smaller brothers and sisters. The key is to keep them divided by size. lots of work in handling! But as Mike as Indicated, some of the big ones have what the current trend is, giant genes!
            Dick Benbow


            • #7


              Here is a picture of a Tobi at first cull six weeks old and another pic at 6 months old. Not a good koi at all bt the bodyshape and colour are quite good.
              Attached Files
              Jaco Vorster
              South Africa


              • #8

                Ive got a couple Tobis this year that I am watching with great interest. Ochibas. Pattern sucks, but then they become soragoi (with brown armpits), which is a decent look, so thats ok.


                • #9

                  Can tobies be used as brood stock? Im thinking that if tobies are growing very fast if put in a pond with plenty of space that they would outgrow the smaller ones by leaps and bounds. Have any of you guys ever done this? Since most dont make it through the first cull, I would love to see the outcome of the koi if you were to keep some of them, measure them with siblings in say 6 mo. time as see what the size difference would be. Body and color and shine is what you look for when spawning, so if a tobie has what it takes to be a parent koi, you could spawn this koi right? I like that the GIANT GENES might come into play here. I wonder how many people have put tobies that dont look good but have the bodies and size in a huge mud pond and let them grow a while and see how they turn out.


                  • #10

                    KFG: I am sure that would be an approach, IF you selected a tobi that had genes for being large, and not just a fry that got a head start on the others and then turned cannibal. But, like crossing back to Magoi for size, you then have to begin a multi-generational series of crosses to get the color etc desired combined with body size. Probably a minimum of 12 years to see if it is going any where. (That's why the breeders pay high prices for top breeding stock. )


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