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Home Bred Matsukawabake

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  • Home Bred Matsukawabake

    Each year I update the photos and sizes of my koi around this time of year. Here are a few I am pleased with.

    The first was bred in 2009 from a matsukawabake male and a female kohaku.
    Attached Files
  • #2

    The next is also from 2009 and is from a carp/showa cross.
    Attached Files

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    • #3

      one more, from a 2010 spawning.
      Attached Files

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      • #4

        I really like the second one.

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        • #5

          Hello Bradley,

          Thanks for posting the results of your spawns. I am always tempted to spawn my gosanke, but I don't have the facility to raise the fry. I am curious what were you trying to achieve with both parings. Do you have pictures of them(parents)? What kind of fry did you get from each group?

          Thanks,
          Sunny

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          • #6

            Sunny,

            The first is one of producing beni matsukawabake, with the upside of matsu with better shiroji.

            The second is a very long term project to build vigor and size into our koi. We are unable to import into Oz and our koi rarely reach over 60cm.

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            • #7

              Hey BB,
              With the complete outcross because it was crossed Showa did you cull for black fry early like a showa spawn or was the approach different ?

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              • #8

                I find the degree of similarity very interesting given the very different parentage.

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                • #9

                  I always appreciate seeing your progress with this variety. Thank-you for
                  posting updates.
                  Dick Benbow

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                  • #10

                    Originally posted by MikeM View Post
                    I find the degree of similarity very interesting given the very different parentage.
                    In Kuroki's book, Shiro Usurimono and Matsu have a common line, Asagi Magoi.

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                    • #11

                      Originally posted by dick benbow View Post
                      I always appreciate seeing your progress with this variety. Thank-you for
                      posting updates.
                      It remains a constant challenge with hints of something extra special in each spawn. I am pleased with the skin quality improvement with the addition of kohaku. But, the hardest part in producing the beni version is pattern stability. Good Matsukawabake need an active modifying gene (JRs spreading white gene) & this is counter to keeping the beni. So, far only small hi patterns are stable into the 3+ year olds. For the next seasons, I plan to keep crossing to kohaku and will do some tesing with other varieites.

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                      • #12

                        Originally posted by AWL View Post
                        Hey BB,
                        With the complete outcross because it was crossed Showa did you cull for black fry early like a showa spawn or was the approach different ?
                        Hi Mate

                        100% of the fry are black. Most of these are either brown or black at 60-90days. None are kohaku, shiromuji or akamuji. The deformity rate is high, mostly related to gill plate issues. Only a small portion are patterned, resemble dark Ochibas, some heavy patterned shiro and showa or they are of the karasu type & these are kept for possible future stock to work with. Given I can only raise several thousand in a spawn, the full potential can only be imagined. An outsider might think I am crazy to pursue the goal.

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                        • #13

                          Originally posted by mrbradleybradley View Post
                          Hi Mate
                          An outsider might think I am crazy to pursue the goal.
                          Well I certainly dont think so.
                          I enjoy seeing good results and pleasure without huge facilities.

                          I hope to be able to do what you do in the future.

                          And please, If you more pictures of some of your most succesful homebred koi I would love to see them.

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                          • #14

                            Do you have a theory about the absence of shiro muji and aka muji as you would normally see these in just about any showa cross spawn?
                             
                            Not crazy BB just a little eccentric but aren’t we all

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                            • #15

                              Dominant sumi. The carp I have been using, have a darkish sumi pigment that lays within an orange (causing the dark brown effect). The white spreading gene is likely recessive to the sumi, or absent. The dark Ochiba look suggests to me absence of the white spreading gene. A friend of mine has been doing the same crosses with carp, using kohaku and gets much the same outcome. Next season, some of the chagoi-looking koi I kept from the first spawn will sexually mature. One plan is to cross these back to Shiro Utsuri/Showa, and it might reveal more white in the offspring.

                              Comment

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