Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Grade Koi

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Grade Koi

    Can someone please tell me what a grade A and AA and AAA koi means in terms of grade? And does any of these grade mean show koi? Or are show koi sold as show koi or what?
  • #2

    Originally posted by koifishgirl
    Can someone please tell me what a grade A and AA and AAA koi means in terms of grade? And does any of these grade mean show koi? Or are show koi sold as show koi or what?
    Depending on the dealer: (A) is usually pond grade, hardly any pattern, (AA) is also pond grade with more varieties and pattern, (AAA) is high quality, pond grade and at some dealers it means show quality, every dealer has there own grading system. The dealers I go to have pond grade koi in price ranges from $12 to $100. AAA grade is show quality, but you still need the eye to know what to look for. Most Koi that are show quality, are going to cost you anywhere from $100 to High thousands, depending on what size they are, and variety. I have personally bought a koi for $30 from our dealer when it was a tosai and now it is 3 years old, and it has won, best baby, best in size 1, 2, 3 and best young. SO you don't always have to spend a lot of money. Sometimes you get the one that they overlooked through the culling process.

    Comment

    • #3

      Can you tell me some of the different ways that koi are classed in terms of grade? What are the other ways that they grade koi. I have noted that some say pond grade and select and thats about all I know about koi in terms of grade. Are you saying the A would mean pond grade and AA select and AAA show koi or better? How am I to know what means what if all use different grading systems.

      Comment

      • #4

        I think for the average pond keeper as well as dealers ( lots of new starts )
        the grading system is a simple method to classify good better best. it also
        helps justify the pricing.

        but the best of a mediochre breeder is still mediochre. For many years name breeders would allow other farmers to use their backup pairs for spawning with the understanding that the owner would come back and select the top ones for himself. The the farmer who bred and raised them would sell them under the name of the owner of the brood stock. people paid for the name not the ability of the name brand breeder to select outstanding individuals.

        Just as in the olde gold mine days where they shotgunned in some high grade stuff in a tired worthless mine for sale, you can easily color up a grade by adding a few individuals from the next grade up. This often happens with the start up of a new dealer with their supplier, who wishes to get off on the right foot.

        if you want a high class grade koi you will have to pay alot of money for a good one.
        A breeder knows when there are tosai that will turn out . he hangs on to them so that in 2-3 or 4 years it has reached it's potential and brings a high price. It does not get sold as tosai for $100.

        I don't wish to put a damper on enthusiasm just a reality check so that the truth will be known. You will pay dearly for a show grade koi. Can you show koi selected from a AAA batch. Sure you can!

        For me my first reality check came with my first visit to an all japan show. That opened my eyes as to what was possible. I had never seen that quality
        before at any dealers handling AAA's. ( In their defense, no one was willing to pay for that quality of koi, so why bring it in on speculation.)
        Dick Benbow

        Comment

        • #5

          KFG: Exactly. You understand it !

          Dick: The "salting" of a shipment of koi, or of a breeder's greenhouse pond, with a few worthy individuals... a curious way to gain stature in a land that so reveres personal honor. But, a nice way to get a customer to come again to see what there might be.
          Last edited by MikeM; 07-04-2005, 10:20 PM. Reason: Posted simultaneously w/Dick, so needs clarification.

          Comment

          • #6

            Thanks guys, yes I do understand what he is saying and what I dont understand is why dont they have one way of grading koi, if you go to a dealer and he say he has koi A AA AAA would you not think that everyone should grade the same way. I mean what is select? Is that considered second best?

            Comment

            • #7

              Nancy hit it on the head. It's up to the breeder or dealer what they want to grade them at. I have seen AA and AAA koi that should have been culled. I drove 2+ hours to a local breeder/dealer to buy some koi. When I talked to him on the phone he said he had a lot of real nice AA and AAA koi for sale. I got to his place and the koi all should have been culled. You could get nicer koi off of eBay then what he had. He was asking $10 to $15 each wholesale for these koi that were 5" to 7". I was real nice about it and told him his koi sucked. I told him he needs to learn how to cull the junk koi with no color and ones that are deformed.

              Find a dealer you trust and buy from them. Don't base your koi on how a dealer grades them.

              Tom

              Keep it simple, keep it straight Koi-Bito.com

              Comment

              • #8

                Originally posted by Tom C
                Don't base your koi on how a dealer grades them.

                Tom
                Great advice! Unfortunately for many inexperienced koi keepers they find this out after they have already been suckered.
                Koi-Unit

                ZNA Potomac Koi Club

                Comment

                • #9

                  The best place to begin is usually at the beginning--

                  The professional Breeder has no letter rating system for his koi. He has fish that he culls as they are unfit for sale. Then fish he selects out as they have no future- tateshita. And the rest are tategoi until they are no longer tategoi and sold off at their peak. Some of the big production breeders down south, sell stock according to the level of its pattern. Once these fish get into the distribution system they can be sold in grades. This implies of course, that there is no individuality to the stock, just a group rating. But guess what? At each level of distribution, these lots are picked through so that the final distributor gets the poorest individuals of a once letter rated lot. In this case, always remember that the guy who graduated LAST in his class from medical school is still called--- Doctor!

                  It goes without saying that if a koi is NOT distributed as an 'individual' then it is distributed as a ' piece'. Meaning it is part of a greater production- if you want a show fish beyond one year old, stay away from these graded fish.

                  The very best fish to buy as a show fish is an individual four year old. The reason? They are fish that have been held back from sale for a long time because they represent the very prime of each spawn. But they are now large and not many breeders have space for this size fish next growing season- so they are actually priced cheap for what you are getting. But having said that, no four year old fish has a small price tag - just cheap relative to the value one gets in three and two year olds! So most of us buy three year olds so that most of the risk is out of the fish ,yet it is not a fortune. A two year old is even cheaper because there are so many, but two year olds may soon be going down hill and might be worthless by age four! And all one year old tategoi are not for sale, unless you are there, in Japan and pay for what the fish would sell for later in life. Obviously, these are not graded fish we are talking about. Some can sell for thousands- again, to reflect what they might be worth if all things come together. This is the gamble in buying expensive tategoi.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    still think you ought to write a book JR.


                    I know a few Dr's in the koi world we could get to write the forward! (LOL)
                    Dick Benbow

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      The grade system is a way that a seller and buyer communicate about the quality of mass-marketed fish without actually seeing them. Originally, the scale was 'A' to 'D' grade. The 'D' designation was seldom used and has largely been dropped in koi, although you still see it used occasionally with goldfish. Few people trying to sell a batch of fish are going to say they are the absolute worst quality. The 'A' grade designation was abused so much that they had to come up with 'AA' and 'AAA' to give the seller a way of saying that a particular batch is better then the mediocre fish that he had called 'A' grade in the past.

                      It is all so arbitrary that, on a five to six point scale, an individual fish may vary by three points depending upon who you talk to. This is not to say that the system has no value though. A buyer and seller who routinely do business with each other develop a sense of what the other guy considers an 'A' fish. A buyer will learn that, for example, the 'B' fish from one guy are usually about the same quality as the 'AA' fish from another guy.

                      Its too late to try to institute standards for the grade designations. It would just confuse things at this point. Most agree that fish in the 'A' to 'AAA' grades can be given a variety name and do not have any easily discernable deformities. Fish in the 'C' grade do not have any gross deformities like a missing eye but you may find fish with border-line flared gills or somewhat small pecs.

                      The grade designations have no relevance in the world of show koi and serious koi collecting. It is predominantly a system for mass-marketed koi.

                      -steve hopkins

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Originally posted by Nancy M.
                        ... I have personally bought a koi for $30 from our dealer when it was a tosai and now it is 3 years old, and it has won, best baby, best in size 1, 2, 3 and best young. SO you don't always have to spend a lot of money. Sometimes you get the one that they overlooked through the culling process.
                        Hi! could you please post some pics of this Koi? Wold be very interesting to see how he/she has changed since it was a tosai.
                        Diego
                        Diego Jordano
                        Cordoba, Spain
                        A.E.K. web site http://www.elkoi.com
                        pers. web site http://es.geocities.com/estanqueskois/

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Originally posted by estanque_koi
                          Hi! could you please post some pics of this Koi? Wold be very interesting to see how he/she has changed since it was a tosai.
                          Diego
                          Hi Diego
                          I will look for other pics of our Sanke tonight, here is one from 2003 best baby ZNA show

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Originally posted by dick benbow
                            still think you ought to write a book JR.


                            I know a few Dr's in the koi world we could get to write the forward! (LOL)
                            I was laughing so hard when I read this

                            Comment

                            All content and images copyright of: Koi-bito.com
                            Working...
                            X