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Breeding update - Shiro's and Kohaku

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  • Breeding update - Shiro's and Kohaku

    Shiro Utsuri's - My good friend Duncan Griffith's donated to me a single spawning rope full of eggs. I have successfully grown on some of the fry and they can now be seen to actually have patterns. Have taken a few photo's to show you. The mother was from Momotaro and the Male from Omosako, so fingers crossed I may get one or two decent Koi from these. I have culled eavily though, so only have around 150 left now, which many have turned white.

    Kohaku's - Once again Duncan has been very generous a donated another rope full of eggs. Picked this up last night and am now awaiting the fry to hatch out. Have added a few pics of the rope and eggs. All Momotaro, female was from Sakurahime line, males from Seiho and Eagle lines, so again very hopefull the genes will mean some decent fry.

    Selecting Kohaku - are there any tips from you breeders out there? Have been told that at 4-weeks, keep just the fry with white noses? Any truth in this, or how do you select Kohaku fry when culling and at what age/size?
    Attached Files
    Regards, Bob
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  • #2

    Mr Hart,
    Welcome to the wild world of baby koi selection (sembetsu)
    regarding shiro Utsuri- hang on to the ones with just white as they may have the black down right now. Sometimes water can affect them negatively but there is a type of black that comes up and down so don't be in a hurry to off
    them.
    The white noses bit is when they are tiny ( and inch or so) and you have nothing more to go on for pattern. so the kohaku babies that show all white with no color (yellow/orange/red) AT 40 DAYS YOU OFF. The solid red ones you off as well. ( a few breeders will keep a few of them for aka hijiros etc) but what you want is some color and a white nose. sometimes the big heavy patterns with only a white nose later break up into killer 2 and 3 steps. but without the white
    nose you have nothing worth feeding.

    Pics were a little dark for my olde eyes but it's always fun to learn, so keep on keeping on! live food is the key for the first 40 days!
    Dick Benbow

    Comment

    • #3

      Bob, as I said a while back, you have a showa spawn, not a shiro utsuri.

      It looks like you have a tancho showa in the making, check the photos.

      I assume from the photo shown, you kept both black and yellow fry?
      Maurice.
      http://www.koi-uk.co.uk

      Comment

      • #4

        Maurice - Yes Showa, I'd forgotton. Easy when I know the parents were Shiro's, but of course they were probably origianlly from Showa spawnings.

        Yes I had to keep some yellow fry, my kids knew there were many of them and didnt like the sound of culling them. Had to do it bit by bit each morning before they were up!

        There are many of the white ones with what looks like a Tancho sopt, but I presume this is just thing skin and therefore the 'brain' of the Koi is showing through.

        It is the Showa looking fry which attract me, maybe a Tancho, do hope so.

        Dick - I'll certainly hold onto many of the white ones, they are about 50/50 at the moment. The biggest fry are the white ones though. Do hope that some sumi does appear on some of them.

        Appreciate your tips for the Kohaku culling, hopefully still a few weeks away yet. The hatching tank is at 23/24 degrees and now established, so hope they will grow on quickly.

        With the Showa/Shiro's, I fed Liquifry No 1 then No 2 for the first few weeks, then moved onto newly hatched brine shrimp. I take it you go straight for the Brine shrimp, or perhaps Rotifers?

        Maurice/Dick/ etc - please feel free to keep advising me. Happy to try most things suggested, as I'm only raising a few fry.
        Regards, Bob
        ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º>
        <º}}}}>< <º}}}}><

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        • #5

          Looking good Bob lets hope you have more than just a few good ones that come good.....a mate your such a nice bloke !!!!!!!!
          Regards

          Gazza

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          • #6

            Thanks for posting, Maurice. I was wondering about those orange tones.

            Bob: A very very interesting group of fry! You are going to have an exciting time with them. Hope you do get a fine Tancho showa!

            Comment

            • #7

              Nice fries!

              To Bob Hart:
              Great time sure you are having.
              Endless waiting in anticipation of upcoming potential koi!
              Whatever the parents are koi seldom fully breed true.
              Select what are desired, especially the bigger ones to be selected and removed.
              Koi cannibalize! Watch over!
              Will be exciting to watch Shiro and Kohaku fries offering a spread of other varieties.
              With luck, God bless, Madison, BK.

              Comment

              • #8

                PS, I'd get that big one out, he could still eat the rest.

                Maurice.
                http://www.koi-uk.co.uk

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                • #9

                  The Kohaku fry have started to hatch out today, all the fun starts again now.
                  Regards, Bob
                  ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º>
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                  • #10

                    OK then Bob we will be looking out for more pictures now
                    Regards

                    Gazza

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                    • #11

                      Trudging through my subscribed threads and came across this one, any chance of an update and some more photos Bob?

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                      • #12

                        Dave,

                        I'm actually culling out again tomorrow, so will provide some updates of what is left. Slower growing than some of the guys on here, no mud ponds for me, just a large plastic tank.

                        Will get some pictures up over the weekend of what are kept. There are some interesting Utsuri/Showa's though.
                        Regards, Bob
                        ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º> ><{{{{º>
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                        • #13

                          Today I again culled out my fry, bred from Momotaro Shiro/Omosako Shiro. In reality though, this is a Showa spawning.

                          I had noticed some deformed gill plates, so wanted these out. Also most of the larger fry were all White, or with some Kohaku type of pattern, these again I wanted out.

                          Des came and helped me, along with my Daughter Daisy. Des's son Gregg has a fish tank in his bedroom, where all the fry I no longer wanted have now gone to.

                          I only kept the Shiro's, Showa's and a couple of Kohaku looking Koi just to see how they turned out. I had thousands of fry originally, now I'm down to 67.

                          I'm sure you can guess which pictures are showing the keepers and the culls. I've also got some Kohaku fry, bred from a Momotaro Sakurahime line female and 2 males from Seio and Eagle lines. Couple of pictures showing some tobies I moved out. These were eating the smaller fry, I could actually see it going on.
                          Attached Files
                          Regards, Bob
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                          • #14

                            Hi Bob,

                            So what are you feeding them now they are getting a bit bigger?
                            Regards

                            Gazza

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                            • #15

                              Am feeding them on something called ZM400, 60% protien.

                              Also some small floating and sinking pellets.

                              I dont think they really get enough food, no live food in a plastic pond!
                              Regards, Bob
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                              Comment

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