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  • Opinions on this koi food, please.

    Any thoughts on this formula?

    http://www.newtcity.com/userimages/Y...ectFormula.doc

    Also, does anyone know how to 'paste' something to a thread here?

    Newt
    Just my thoughts...

    NewtCity Message Board

    TheMudPond Board
  • #2

    Looks like the ingredients are from appropriate sources. I do not see much of a "green veggie" ingredient... nothing stands out as providing any color enhancement. (Which may or may not be what someone wants.) Don't know about aspergillus being used. Beta Glucan is used in the Azoo brand pellets inported from Taiwan. About all I can contribute to the subject.

    Comment

    • #3

      This Spring & Fall Blend has the same exact ingredient listing and analysis as UltraClear brand Spring & Fall Formula and Chengro Spring & Fall. It’s interesting to note that UltraClear has the following “Retail Pledge”

      UltraClear Retail Products

      [img]aoladp://MA11107819-0001/image002.jpg[/img]

      Our Retail Pledge!

      We only sell through independent retailers. We don't sell to Wal-Mart, Lowe's or Home Depot. We don't sell directly to the consumer.


      These products are distributed through retail garden centers, water garden centers, professional landscapers, nurseries, pet stores, hardware stores, general stores and other independent retail merchants.


      It’s also interesting to note that a company that specializes in bacteria based products for the wastewater industry has become experts in koi nutrition. There is some irony here.

      Comment

      • #4

        Thanks, Nancy

        Thanks, Nancy, for taking a look at this. I can't find, though, that the ingredients are 'exactly the same' as the other two feeds you mention. I'd be interested in seeing the formulas you're talking about, as the ones I find have quite a few differences.

        Maybe Chengro is milling more than one recipe?

        What is your opinion of the feed I posted? Good, fair, poor? Any thoughts?

        Thanks!

        Newt
        Just my thoughts...

        NewtCity Message Board

        TheMudPond Board

        Comment

        • #5

          Hi Newt
          Here is your attachement. I am not sure if Chengro is milling other formulas. This is the formulas for the fall & spring blend.

          What is your opinion of the feed I posted? Good, fair, poor? Any thoughts?

          Thanks!

          Newt

          I have not tried it, nor would I.














          Premium Select Formula
          Floating Koi Food


          Guaranteed Analysis

          Crude Protein, min. 40.00 %

          Crude Fat, min. 6.00 %

          Crude Fiber, max. 4.00 %

          Moisture, max. 10.00 %



          Ingredients:

          WhiteFish Meal, Krill Meal, Shrimp Meal, Rice Bran, Brown Rice, Wheat Germ, Durum Wheat, Alfalfa Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Beta Glucan, Fish Oil, Salt, Vitamin E, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (stabilized vitamin C), Calcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Iron Proteinate , Garlic, Choline Chloride, Inositol, Aspergillus Niger, Aspergillus Oryzae, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Biotin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol (Vitamin K), Vitamin A, Acetate, Copper Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.


          PREMIUM SELECT is a complete floating fish food for growing SHOW QUALITY and Pond Fish. Our unique Immune Beta Glucan added vitamins, chelated minerals, and natural color intensifiers Our SUPER FOOD contains the highest quality natural ingredients


          Manufactured in the USA

          Comment

          • #6

            I'm using this now, as a mix in. My pond is mostly tosai and nisai. All the Chengro products are milled the same, they apparently changed some formations earlier in the year which is why you may be seeing different ingredients from outdated sources. Ingredient list looks impressive. Many makes use the practice of "ingredient splitting" to make formuations look better. This is usually done with wheet, sometimes with corn to make it slide furter down the list. I don't know much about the techy food stuff, but maybe 4th and 5th ingredient, Brown Rice and Rice Bran if combined may really be 1st rated ingredient. Same with Wheat Germ and Durum Wheat (5th-6th). That may not be the reason though, I have no idea. This is done on many feeds. Made in the USA is better IMHO, rather have something fresh than something that has been on a boat for 6 months comming over here. Some of the foreign foods are milled here as well though. Quality of ingredients is never discussed, not sure if it matters but I would assume all fish meal is the same quality as fish meal in other products? The food represends a good value, for as low as $2.50 per pound in bulk, I think its a good deal at least. My koi got there first serving yesterday of it. I use basic 32% wheat germ as a base throughout the year.

            Ryan S.

            Comment

            • #7

              Thanks, Nanc...

              I can't find that formula on their site for some reason...I was looking for that.

              You say you wouldn't try it...any reason 'why?'

              Newt
              Just my thoughts...

              NewtCity Message Board

              TheMudPond Board

              Comment

              • #8

                Ingredients:

                WhiteFish Meal, Krill Meal, Shrimp Meal, Rice Bran, Brown Rice, Wheat Germ, Durum Wheat, Alfalfa Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Beta Glucan, Fish Oil, Salt, Vitamin E, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (stabilized vitamin C), Calcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Iron Proteinate , Garlic, Choline Chloride, Inositol, Aspergillus Niger, Aspergillus Oryzae, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Biotin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol (Vitamin K), Vitamin A, Acetate, Copper Proteinate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Iodate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenite.



                There is alot of big words in the ingredients: Now is there a break down in which, what part does for the fish? Seems there are alot of preservitives in this mix...
                The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                Comment

                • #9

                  Originally posted by aquitori
                  There is alot of big words in the ingredients: Now is there a break down in which, what part does for the fish? Seems there are alot of preservitives in this mix...
                  You are correct - guess it could be like some other foods and just put vague ingredients? Or do they put on there food a breakdown of each ingredient on most feed? Do they not use any preservatives? Or simply just not list them?

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by Tim C
                    You are correct - guess it could be like some other foods and just put vague ingredients? Or do they put on there food a breakdown of each ingredient on most feed? Do they not use any preservatives? Or simply just not list them?
                    Everyone is talking about freshness....now for the feed to last that long on a boat there has to be preservatives....Everything has preservatives...you have to be in complete denial if people think there aren't....Now most of the listed ingredients are so scientific you got to be the food maker to understand it....Now how much of us need this reassurance of big words? Maybe be some of us.

                    Now my Question is this out of all the big name competitive hobbyist out there I want to know if they use "American Koi Food"...If I handed Duke Nguyen a bag of other than "Japanese Koi Food" he'll probably laugh....
                    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Originally posted by aquitori
                      Everyone is talking about freshness....now for the feed to last that long on a boat there has to be preservatives....Everything has preservatives...you have to be in complete denial if people think there aren't....Now most of the listed ingredients are so scientific you got to be the food maker to understand it....Now how much of us need this reassurance of big words? Maybe be some of us.

                      Now my Question is this out of all the big name competitive hobbyist out there I want to know if they use "American Koi Food"...If I handed Duke Nguyen a bag of other than "Japanese Koi Food" he'll probably laugh....
                      I figured since you brought up the preservatives and the fancy words that you were pointing out that others didn't. Guess I read it wrong...

                      I doubt very seriously that you won't find many of those who are in the high end spectrum of the hobby who will use this food, but, I don't recall anyone suggesting that, but again, maybe I missed that as well...

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        The food imported from Japan isn’t on a boat for 6 months as you know, try closer to 12-14 days. A food manufactured in the US can sit in warehouses for many months particularly those with a very small market share (for a good reason). There is a very large variance in quality of ingredients as fish meal can range from lean cuts of select meat to a cut above fertilizer. The same holds true for every other ingredient ranging from krill to alfalfa. You can soak a leather sole from a shoe in rancid lard and you’ll get a protein and fat analysis but just try to digest that. The true test is not what the ingredients or analysis says but what the end results are for the long-term health of the fish and it really takes a lab and long term testing to monitor this. Any fly-by-night company throwing together some ingredients cannot achieve the same results. Trust and reputation are built over a long period of time and for a reason. Take that $2.50/lb, divide by a retailer mark-up, and then deduct shipping, packaging, labor, R & D, marketing, manufacturing cost and overhead. The amount you arrive at will cost less than a head of subsidized lettuce purchased by (not at) your mega grocery store chain. If somebody thinks they can purchase a quality diet for the pet they love at this price then call it a good value and bon appetit.



                        How can a foreign food be milled here? Please get an example of this

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Ms. Nancy, let me see if I can break this down. Mind you all, I am merely a novice and far from being as well schooled as you or some others on this board, but I do like a good debate.



                          You say: The food imported from Japan isn’t on a boat for 6 months as you know, try closer to 12-14 days. A food manufactured in the US can sit in warehouses for many months particularly those with a very small market share (for a good reason).



                          I would bet that those foods imported from anywhere overseas are sitting in a warehouse somewhere in the States as well – probably in a real similar warehouse so that does nothing for arguments sake.





                          You say: There is a very large variance in quality of ingredients as fish meal can range from lean cuts of select meat to a cut above fertilizer. The same holds true for every other ingredient ranging from krill to alfalfa.



                          Agreed, but how does one know that “X” brand (nevermind where it is made or who makes it) uses only the most CHOICE cuts of the finest fish to make their fish meal? Again, it does nothing for argument sake.



                          You say: You can soak a leather sole from a shoe in rancid lard and you’ll get a protein and fat analysis but just try to digest that.



                          That is funny – thanks for the laugh!



                          You say: The true test is not what the ingredients or analysis says but what the end results are for the long-term health of the fish and it really takes a lab and long term testing to monitor this.



                          Agreed! Spot on, but everyone has to start somewhere…do they not?



                          You say: Any fly-by-night company throwing together some ingredients cannot achieve the same results. Trust and reputation are built over a long period of time and for a reason. Take that $2.50/lb, divide by a retailer mark-up, and then deduct shipping, packaging, labor, R & D, marketing, manufacturing cost and overhead. The amount you arrive at will cost less than a head of subsidized lettuce purchased by (not at) your mega grocery store chain.



                          Well, let’s look at it. Anyone here work for a pet food mill? Or better yet, anyone going to come out and say exactly what it costs to make the product? I think not. I would venture to say ANY fish food made falls in the same category – the difference is mentioned above “The true test….” Which equates to demand, which equates to the price. That, and it ain’t cheap to import anything.



                          You say: If somebody thinks they can purchase a quality diet for the pet they love at this price then call it a good value and bon appetit.



                          My fish say: YUM YUM

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Hi Guys and Gals,
                            I recently asked a well known and respected Koi keeper, and often Koi judge, what he thought the best food is at this time, and he didn't hesitate to say, the cheapest one! He says buy the cheapest named food and add some of your own ingredients to get the results you want. It's hard to argue with someone who has had so much success.
                            Koi-Unit
                            " Da Best" Chapter
                            xxx

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              I agree

                              I think there's a lot of wisdom in that thought. Adding fresh seafood, worms, fruits and vegetables and etcetera to a basic pellet has got to make for a much better diet.

                              Newt
                              Just my thoughts...

                              NewtCity Message Board

                              TheMudPond Board

                              Comment

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