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  • Expectations from breeders and bloodline.

    How many of us buy koi on the mere name alone? I think many of us have...Now with that said how many of us have bought with high expectations of the fish knowing it is from a name brand breeder?

    Now are we buying on the "Snob appeal" or we smart enough to understand the breeder and bloodline. Food for thought.....
    The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.
  • #2

    Tonio,
    I think you said it yourself, just because a fish is bought from a certain Breeder, it doesn't always mean it was bred by that person. How can you be sure Sensei?
    Koi-Unit
    " Da Best" Chapter
    xxx

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    • #3

      Oh Antonio

      "Snob Appeal" are you a koi snob? Not me . We buy cause we like it. I do care about the breeder, but it is not the reason to buy a Koi. Just because a certain name brand breeder, has a koi for sale does not mean it is a true piece of art. Bloodline, sex, pattern, confirmation, Hi, Shiro,Sumi, etc.. all are the deciding factors when we purchase a koi. Never buy just for a name.

      Originally posted by aquitori
      How many of us buy koi on the mere name alone? I think many of us have...Now with that said how many of us have bought with high expectations of the fish knowing it is from a name brand breeder?

      Now are we buying on the "Snob appeal" or we smart enough to understand the breeder and bloodline. Food for thought.....

      Comment

      • #4

        If you really understand a breeders bloodline, there is value in selecting a koi you can anticpate potential or development with.


        ULTIMATELY YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO BE ABLE TO PICK OUT A GOOD KOI IRREGARDLESS OF WHO BRED IT!


        Ocassionally when a breeder looses a crop, they will switch with another breeder some of their say best sankes for a direct swap for same class kohakus. You would never know it, but the two breeders know it's imporatant for both's reputations to have given each other excellent fish for customers to develop and fill their expectations!
        Dick Benbow

        Comment

        • #5

          Originally posted by Akinosan
          Tonio,
          I think you said it yourself, just because a fish is bought from a certain Breeder, it doesn't always mean it was bred by that person. How can you be sure Sensei?
          Sensei? Damn...I buy because I likes it!!!(Mizzou talk) Well anyways, some people are under the impression that if they bought from this particular breeder they would have something fantastic....
          The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

          Comment

          • #6

            Originally posted by Nancy M.
            Oh Antonio

            "Snob Appeal" are you a koi snob? Not me . We buy cause we like it. I do care about the breeder, but it is not the reason to buy a Koi. Just because a certain name brand breeder, has a koi for sale does not mean it is a true piece of art. Bloodline, sex, pattern, confirmation, Hi, Shiro,Sumi, etc.. all are the deciding factors when we purchase a koi. Never buy just for a name.
            "Koi Snob"? Not mees(Mizzou talk) I am with you Nancy, I buy because I like it not because Tom, Dick and Hank said this breeder is the bomb....That thing doesn't work for me anymore....I am no longer a rookie so to speak...
            The world sleeps as the chance to learn something new passes.

            Comment

            • #7

              Originally posted by Nancy M.
              Oh Antonio

              "Snob Appeal" are you a koi snob? Not me . We buy cause we like it. I do care about the breeder, but it is not the reason to buy a Koi. Just because a certain name brand breeder, has a koi for sale does not mean it is a true piece of art. Bloodline, sex, pattern, confirmation, Hi, Shiro,Sumi, etc.. all are the deciding factors when we purchase a koi. Never buy just for a name.
              Second motion to this Nancy - But if you have a choice to buy one of the two quality kois, one from Momotaro and other from Ogata etc..., which one you will select?

              Comment

              • #8

                Originally posted by dinh
                Second motion to this Nancy - But if you have a choice to buy one of the two quality kois, one from Momotaro and other from Ogata etc..., which one you will select?
                Sorry to say but I would pick OGATA, had lots of luck with all his babies...
                I know most would pick a momotaro, but I think that is because of the name. That is why we must get pass the name and look at each fish and judge the fish on its own merits.

                Comment

                • #9

                  Originally posted by aquitori
                  "Koi Snob"? Not mees(Mizzou talk) I am with you Nancy, I buy because I like it not because Tom, Dick and Hank said this breeder is the bomb....That thing doesn't work for me anymore....I am no longer a rookie so to speak...


                  Ah Antonio you are no longer a novice.. I am glad to hear that. You are way above the novice class. You are one who should be very proud of your accomplishments in the Koi hobby. Knowledge is the key to all...

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by Nancy M.
                    Sorry to say but I would pick OGATA, had lots of luck with all his babies...
                    I know most would pick a momotaro, but I think that is because of the name. That is why we must get pass the name and look at each fish and judge the fish on its own merits.
                    I like this;--) three years ago I made the same decision. Picked an Ogata over Momotaro for two kois that almost same qaulity to me. Happily with the choice I made. But the reason for it at that time because I paid only 1/2 price for the Ogata;-))

                    P.S. Nancy, I like many of your and Frank kois;-))

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Originally posted by dinh
                      I like this;--) three years ago I made the same decision. Picked an Ogata over Momotaro for two kois that almost same qaulity to me. Happily with the choice I made. But the reason for it at that time because I paid only 1/2 price for the Ogata;-))

                      P.S. Nancy, I like many of your and Frank kois;-))
                      Yes I agree, Ogata has some very nice high quality koi, No one can deny that Momotaro is an excellent breeder... Just sometimes you are lucky and can find an exceptional koi from other breeders for less $$. I also love Marudo koi..
                      Thank you, I have seen some photo's on this board of your koi, you have some very nice pieces.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        When it comes to breeders and bloodlines, my objective is to pick up fish from specific breeders who's koi develop right in my pond. It's always nice to have 'bragging rights' but when it comes down to it, pick out/up koi from specific breeders who's koi develop right in your own pond. Just my modest opinion

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Hi


                          It's ok to look for koi produced by a specific breeder. But select the one that has the quality, not just the name.

                          Sincerely,

                          Regenmeneer

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                          • #14

                            One problem with buying by breeders is that you don´t know if the Koi are really his Koi. Especially big breeders (Ogata, etc.) are buying from other smaller breeders. So you have to judge Koi by Koi. Not breeder by breeder.

                            But you should always consider one thing: If new bloodlines are produced (won´t happen with big varieties (Gosanke, Utsuri)) you need to compare it with the lines of other breeders.

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              I agree with Regenmeneer. Knowing the breeder and the bloodline is very important in order to beable to predict development and cull correctly especially when you start getting in to finding the very best of the fish in a spawn. But this doesn't count worth a hill of beans if the fish itself isn't able to pass along the largest number of superior genes and desired traits to it's oftspring. A perfect fish is also no guarentee for perfect spawning. How often have we seen GC show fish that don't deliver good fry? Even having said that the match of male to female is just as important. A bad combination will lead to much dissapointment.
                              B.Scott
                              Semper in excreta, sumus solum profundum variat

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