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  • Salt treatment

    Hello

    Spring begins in my hometown.

    Like every year the koi start to have itching and they scratching.

    I do not care much, every year is repeated, but when summer comes the problem disappears. I have never had health problems with the koi, only those itching spring.

    This year I decided to give them a salt treatment for the first time, and also to review them carefully, because long ago I do not.
    I followed the instructions I found on internet
    I prepared two containers, one of 100 liters for large koi, another 50 liters for small koi. Both with great aeration.
    The proportion of salt 2% (2kg per 100l)
    The distance between the pond and treatment vessels is two meters. The koi have been out of water no more than 4 seconds.

    First I put my biggest koi.
    The koi has dropped blood. The water has turned red too quickly.
    I thought it could have hurt him with the network, but only found this:



    What could be cause this injury?
    The wound does not let blood, I think the koi was releasing bleed through the gills because of stress.
    This koi has not withstood the treatment of 20 minutes, 15 minutes I returned to the koi pond because it seemed "unconscious." He had stopped swimming and was tapped.
    After releasing the koi has been lying at the bottom of the pond. I decided to bring an aeration stone near the koi. The koi has gradually recovered, 4 hours later and can swim well, but still a bit groggy.

    All other koi have resisted the full course of 20 minutes without any problem. No bleeding. After returning to the pond all the other have normal behavior. They even seem happier after the bath salt.



    More photos of the whole koi:
    54 cm, Famale.



    Why this koi has suffered much more than others?
    Why the same proportion of salt this koi has lost consciousness so quickly?
    Why has not recovered quickly as the others?
    Can be related to the injury?
    I do something wrong?

    This one also has gone through treatment without problems:



    small koi treatment:



    Regards
  • #2

    Looks like an unhappy Koi.
    I seem to have missed the bit where you diagnose what is wrong before putting it in salt over twice its own blood concentration.
    What were you hoping to treat?

    Comment

    • #3

      Without the salting, it is not that uncommon for a large Koi to bleed through its gills when stressed during transportation.

      It can be quite disturbing the first time you see it.

      Comment

      • #4

        Originally posted by pondlife View Post
        Looks like an unhappy Koi.
        I seem to have missed the bit where you diagnose what is wrong before putting it in salt over twice its own blood concentration.
        What were you hoping to treat?

        I pretended my koi watch closely and take the opportunity to take a salt bath for my koi.
        As I have read, salt is a formidable ally koi keeper, its use is safe, cheap and has no known side effects, but also has its limitations.
        I've also read that is good for the skin, in addition to reducing the osmotic pressure of the fish.
        Individual treatments of koi are used for the rapid eradication of the parasites of koi, work especially well with Costia, Trichodina and Chilondonela.

        I can not treat the entire pond with 0.5% salt, so I decided to take a bath to kill any parasites koi and not harmful to the fish according to the instructions for individual baths of 20 minutes to 2% salt
        In fact the treatment was not harmful to other koi pond.
        The capture of the koi in the pond was no more traumatic than others. And koi behavior has always been normal before treatment, except for spring itching in all koi.

        Do you think the treatment was excessive or dangerous?
        Do you think that the wound may be an ulcer?

        Comment

        • #5

          Originally posted by ricshaw View Post
          Without the salting, it is not that uncommon for a large Koi to bleed through its gills when stressed during transportation.

          It can be quite disturbing the first time you see it.

          I saw a video about koi bleeding from the gills. They said it was normal when they were stressed. That's why seeing that he had no bleeding wound, I assumed they were by stress and decided to continue treatment.
          Three years ago I have the koi, I've never captured to watch closely. They have scared a lot when I entered the pond and the transport time not more than 4 seconds out of water.
          My question is. Why do this if the others do not?
          I think this fish was more stressed for some reason and that has not assimilated the treatment well.

          Next time, when I see the slightest symptom of stress I will stop treatment immediately. The truth do not think there next time ... think it is better to let them rub a few months.



          Are the larger koi easier to stress?

          Comment

          • #6

            Do you think the treatment was excessive or dangerous?
            Do you think that the wound may be an ulcer?[/QUOTE]

            2kg per 100L is a 17.66% solution or brine for smoking fish if that is what you dipped them in.
            I have heard of dipping in 6% solution but at best it is barbarous and should not be practiced.
            The fish that is flashing is in stress, added is stress in catching , stress in
            putting in small container and the sudden dipping in a strong salt solution.
            To treat with salt use 3lb per 100 gal gradually adding to your pond. Then after 24hr gradually reduce to one lb per 100gal. That means nearly a complete water change in your pond.
            Regards
            Eugene

            Comment

            • #7

              Originally posted by Eugeneg View Post

              2kg per 100L is a 17.66% solution or brine for smoking fish if that is what you dipped them in.

              Eugene
              17.66% I thing no

              L= liters

              2kg salt /100 liters(100kg) = 2%


              I live on an island. This year we had little rain and droughts are expected in the summer. I can pull 5000 liters of salt water down the drain. My conscience prevents me.
              So do not treat the whole pond with salt.

              As I said, 9 Koi have followed the same treatment.
              Only one has been problematic.

              What difference the problematic koi from others?

              - It's bigger
              -He had a small wound (pictured)

              For the rest the procedure was exactly the same.

              I see that you do not see anything strange in the wound.
              So I think that the problem has been the psychological shock of being caught after so long.
              This female koi is the "chief" among others. Perhaps this feature will make it mentally weaker against capture. I do not know ...
              Tomorrow observe if the koi has stress marks or abnormal behavior.
              I'll post my observations.

              regards

              Comment

              • #8

                Today the koi are well.
                They are hungry and without stress marks

                So far none have itching.
                I will continue the observscion. If during these days I do not see any koi scratching, I'm happy with the individual treatment of 2% salt for 20 minutes.

                Comment

                • #9

                  There are breeders who perform a salt bath treatment on koi brought in from the mud ponds before releasing them into the greenhouse ponds for winter keeping (or prior to shipping). I have seen video of Maeda-san doing so at Momotaro and Brady Brandwood in the U.S. The idea is to have so strong a saline solution that any parasites drop off immediately from the shock. The fish often begins to roll (you might call it loss of consciousness) due to osmotic stress in one minute or less. Then the fish is placed in salt-free water to recover and placed in the pond (or holding tank for bagging up later to ship). This is done to prevent/minimize parasites entering from the mud pond.

                  The technique you followed exposed the fish longer, and the fish was returned to the same pond. It is likely the pond has some of the same parasites present, so re-infestation could well occur over the course of a few days.
                  Last edited by MikeM; 03-19-2012, 09:00 AM.

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Originally posted by MikeM View Post
                    There are breeders who perform a salt bath treatment on koi brought in from the mud ponds before releasing them into the greenhouse ponds for winter keeping (or prior to shipping). I have seen video of Maeda-san doing so at Momotaro and Brady Brandwood in the U.S. The idea is to have so strong a saline solution that any parasites drop off immediately from the shock. The fish often begins to roll (you might call it loss of consciousness) due to osmotic stress in one minute or less. Then the fish is placed in salt-free water to recover and placed in the pond (or holding tank for bagging up later to ship). This is done to prevent/minimize parasites entering from the mud pond.

                    The technique you followed exposed the fish longer, and the fish was returned to the same pond. It is likely the pond has some of the same parasites present, so re-infestation could well occur over the course of a few days.
                    As you say the only effective treatment would be complete around the pond.

                    Yesterday was a day of working with koi.
                    Apart from treatment, take to clean the water pump, pipes, Thorough cleaning of the filter, air stones, etc.
                    I have also changed 50% water (harvested to irrigate and clean, never throw water down the drain)
                    I have also added new bacteria into the biological filter for the beginning of spring.

                    I thought all this, plus the salt treatment would help to eliminate or reduce the itching that appear each year.

                    I just saw a koi scratching

                    Is the cure worse than the disease?

                    Next year I will leave scratching.
                    I also I have itching and spring allergies

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      That's a real problem living on an island with limited water.

                      It's hard to see how dosing to 0.3% for your whole pond would be a problem for the island waste water system though.

                      Here in UK we've had a very dry winter and many areas are heading for hosepipe bans, which could get difficult. So we'll have to start thinking about water conservation which with our rain levels hasn't normally been a big issue in the past.

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        That's a real problem living on an island with limited water.
                        I live in Mallorca, a small island in the Mediterranean, water is a problem in times of drought.
                        Water is cheap, I can pay for water. It's just a matter of principle.

                        It's hard to see how dosing to 0.3% for your whole pond would be a problem for the island waste water system though.
                        The problem is I can not water my garden with the salt water.

                        Here in UK we've had a very dry winter and many areas are heading for hosepipe bans, which could get difficult. So we'll have to start thinking about water conservation which with our rain levels hasn't normally been a big issue in the past.

                        I think that in a future drinking water will become the most valuable asset.
                        When this happens I do not think I pull 5000 liters of water for my fish just do not have itching.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          If you treat the whole pond with a formalin/malachite green treatment intended for pond use, the water can be used for irrigation in the flower garden. (I would not use on a vegetable garden.) Nearly all the common parasites except flukes can be controlled with it.

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Thanks for the info.
                            Malachite green seems like a good option. I can treat the entire pond and I can reuse the water for my lawn and flowering plants.
                            I'll keep watching the Koi if they have more itching I will deal with malachite green.

                            Can you recommend any treatment manual for malachite green?

                            regards

                            Comment

                            • #15

                              Check koivet.com for lots of info on medications and treatments.

                              There are products available with easy to use instructions, but I do not know what is available where you are. You probably would do best looking at websites of suppliers based in the UK, Germany or the Netherlands. These are major koi hobby areas and likely more accessible to you than U.S. suppliers.

                              Comment

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