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thinking out loud

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  • thinking out loud

    As many of you know, I love my satsuki azeala bonsai. i was talking to my local bonsai dealer when the next shipment would be in and she laughted. I asked why and she said there was a Q against all of them from Japan and it will take 2 years to get them imported held and cleared for sale IF AND WHEN THE GOVERNMENT writes the regs on what the requirerments are. they've been waiting for over a year now! you don't think anything like that would happen to koi do you?
    Dick Benbow
  • #2

    Dick: What disease/pest do they supposedly harbor? Or, is this the U.S. getting back on steel etc?


    • #3


      I don't profess to know anything about bonsai but why could the plant not just be grown in the US from seed/cuttings etc, why would people go to the extent of importing.

      I guess that sounds to a bonsai grower as dumb as non koi keepers asking why we bother getting them all the way from Japan.

      Mark Gardner


      • #4

        (Malicious) thought of the day.

        If we kept koi in cramped conditions on a subsistance diet, would they become BonsaiKoi?

        Liberate the larch! Let my Pinus grow. LOL

        South East Koi Club


        • #5

          your funny! remember 15 years ago, all the rage was "bonsai koi".they would take a male koi that was finished early and then keep it YEAR AFTER YEAR TO COMPETE FOR BABY GRAND. lol, now I go into dealers shops and hear,yeah, it'll compete for baby grand this year and if you keep it right you'll have a nice shot a jr grand and evenyually GC! different day, different mind set. quess we did get liberated!
          bonsai get the look people want to keep when they have lots of years on them. I really don't get excited about satsuki's until they're around 20 years old or so. it would be like an over 80 cm koi. impressive but takes time. in japan there are nurseries that have rows upon rows of aged plants in the ground in a condition that in a year or two you can clean up and have something impressive. kinda like a koi grower who wants to sell
          a koi 3-4 years old that you can see what's ahead and give the joy of finishing to the koi keeper.
          I truely am afraid that our hobby is destined to have some rocky roads ahead like our beef farmers have had to endure in canada, the us and uk.
          I believe it is only a matter of time
          Dick Benbow


          • #6


            Dick I am also into bonsai but in a small way. Yes import regs can change at any minute like we experience in the beef and ruminant industry here in Canada. It can be real or imagined so we have to take the good with the bad. This new disease in Japan is an example. We may feel it is a threat to native or domestic fish stocks which it is and not allow them in. It could go that way. In Japan they are very concerned about it. Bonsai could carry some disease or pest like the golden nematode and bango no more imports. I suppose you could get around some of these concerns with soiless culture.

            I have been growing bonsai that do well in the house and I have a few minor and mega bonsai in my fields. I have a very large Scots pine that is very twisted and neat that I have had for many years. I started it as a seedling in about 1976.
            The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!


            • #7

              Thanks for the explanation Dick.

              I think/hope that in the UK we will be rather more fortunate regarding any controls over imports.

              More sinister viruses than KHV are already here in the UK, in low/rare numbers admitedly, and controlling problems from Eastern Europe would be more of an issue than a virus with no direct link to the food chain.

              Mark Gardner


              • #8

                The food chain

                It is possible that there could be a link to the food chain so to speak with koi. They are in outdoor ponds. It is unlikely that the ponds could overflow into native water but it is possible with big rains, floods, pump outs etc the fry are small and could possible escape taking something with them. It could also be possible for wildlife to carry one of the pathogens to another source not likely but possible. The native and or commercial fisheries can be a big lobby
                The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!


                • #9

                  KHV affects only cyprinus carpio to the best of my knowledge.

                  In the UK cyprinus carpio are not a food fish.
                  Mark Gardner


                  • #10


                    Here's an alternate answer to you question EAB. If you don't live in Michigan, Ohio, or Ontario I doubt that you have heard of it. EAB is short for an insect called the Emerald Ash Borer. It traveled to the Detroit area acouple of years ago in potted plants comming from Asia. In just a few years it has killed millions of trees. It has a 100% kill rate for several types of trees. I should know, I have lost about 20 trees (30-40yrs old) from my back yard. The only thing left is about 4 oaks and 6 small sugar maples. It is now a violation of Federal Law to remove trees from this area. I'll attach a quote from the State of Michigan Website:

                    In the summer of 2002, scientists detected a new exotic insect in six southeast Michigan counties -- Livingston, Macomb, Monroe, Oakland, Washtenaw and Wayne. This pest, known as the Emerald Ash Borer (EAB for short), is an invasive species originally from Asia and previously unknown in North America that affects ash trees. To date, it has killed or damaged millions of ash trees in these affected areas. It has also been detected in Windsor, Ontario of Canada, and in small, isolated pockets in Berrien, Calhoun, Eaton, Genesee, Ingham, Jackson, Kent, Lenawee, Saginaw, Shiawassee and St. Clair counties.

                    Anyone who realizes they have inadvertently moved firewood out of this area, is advised to burn it completely properly and report it via the state’s toll-free Emerald Ash Borer hotline (866/325-0023)! Additionally, if you don’t know what type of firewood it is, please don’t move it. It is vitally important that all Southeast Michigan cooperate and adhere to this quarantine to help limit the spread of this new ash tree pest.


                    • #11

                      Sanke 56,
                      was real impressed to hear of your scots pine! wow! sounds like a beaut!
                      was looking at some just the pther day in two gal pots and one had a more bluish tint than the others. internodes were too long tho!

                      used to be a buckeye. would head every spring to the u.p. and chant my mantra " I wish again to fish again, in michigan". used to fly fish the pere marquette for browns. daughter married and moved to illinois so still have a midwest connection.

                      it's been fun getting to know all of the contributors on this board as people not just koi keepers only!
                      Dick Benbow


                      • #12


                        surprised and devestated to hear about EAB. Having once been a regular traveller to the States I was always impressed with the controls on plants etc at the customs areas.

                        The UK had a similar problems some 15 years ago with a disease known as Dutch Elm Disease which wiped out a high percentage of healthy trees in a short space of time.

                        rgds BERN
                        South East Koi Club


                        • #13

                          and Dutch Elm Disease is still here Bern, I lost eight large elms two years ago, about 14 year olds.
                          'twas the dreaded beetle choking them!

                          "Gentlemen prefer ponds"


                          • #14

                            Yes some of the introductions we have done around the world are devastating. Many are early efforts at biological control ie rabbits to Australia and the cane toad wow. In Alberta we are using grass carp and silver carp for weed and algae control but they are triploid and not able to reproduce so they don't take over. The silver carp eats suspended algae sort of a filter feeder. I am sure they are used in other countries too but we are having a go at them here.

                            Scots pine can have yellowish and bluish tinges to them. I have a cultivar that gets a yellowish tinge in winter it is very hardy and doesn't sun scald.
                            We get a lot of sunscald here in winter when the days get longer and the sun reflects off the snow and the tissue gets dried out.
                            The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!


                            • #15


                              It's kinda a sad sight to see. As you travel from the farming south to the wooded UP (Upper Penisula) in the north you would always see mixed forest areas along I-75 and US-23. In the summer, these forests look like the first few weeks of spring when only the soft wood trees have leaves. After the Elm disease in the last decade, this has been devastating to SE lower Michigan. I have never seen anything move so fast, I never realised how high the Ash percentage was.


                              Pere Marquette, ( that a great place to fish. I hiked that area about 10 years ago. Heres last weeks fish report:

                              I hope no one has a problem with this.


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