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  • Sakai Showa for Comment

    Attached pls find sakai showa picture for your comments. Nisai 40cm female.
    Attached Files
  • #2

    expensive fish, and worth it...a pleasure to watch for years to come

    Comment

    • #3

      Which Sakai?

      I am guessing Hiroshima..... ?

      Joe
      It's a living creature (chit happens)

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      • #4

        Ooooo. Tategoi.

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        • #5

          Keo, its sakai hiroshima. Not an auction fish, just some leftover from last batch.

          Come on Mike, you could do better than just ooo ....

          Fyi, no deal is made yet

          A bit small for a nisai, how abt the size of the head ?

          Comment

          • #6

            O.K., O.K. .... The Beni is very good. The Sumi will be lacquer. The Shiro is clean and bright. The shoulder height is just what you want. The shoulder and head width are "acceptable". The angle of the photo causes me concern about the thickness of the tail in the peduncle. It looks alright, but not super. Whether this is an accurate impression, I do not know. Could be the photo. I am thinking a fish that grows nicely, but not 32". The Hi has a softness to it without being very orange in the photo. I expect it has a hint of being a bit "rosy" in person. If so, I expect it will become brilliant as the fish matures. (I had a male with that sort of "Showa Hi" at one time. He was wonderful on the color chart, if not in any other way.) The pattern is major guess work. Right now there is too much Sumi on the rear. But, if it comes in solid on the "black side" and does not spill over too much onto the "red side", you could have a balance of heavy tones on the rear. Then need Sumi to arise in the mid-section to give better distribution throughout and not have a bare midriff look to her when the classic Sumi patterning on the head comes up. The Motoguro is going to be good, helping to balance the weight of the rear pattern.

            I said "tategoi" not just because the future of this fish will be better than the present, in my opinion, but also because if the possibilities come together, she may be very special, even if only 28". ...Those are my guesses. You understand, of course, that the breeder knows his fish better than anyone, and he thought this one did not have enough potential to deserve a third summer in the mud. Then, again, Sakai Hiroshima has culls other breeders would slave a year to raise.

            Comment

            • #7

              I think it's a wonderful koi. Not too many koi get a second look from me anymore
              if they're not blue, but this one does. tell me your pond PH is 7.4/7.6 but no higher!
              Dick Benbow

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              • #8

                Can I be honest?

                Maurice.
                http://www.koi-uk.co.uk

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                • #9

                  WE WOULD EXPECT THAT FROM MOST PEOPLE BUT ESPECIALLY yOU!
                  Dick Benbow

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                  • #10

                    Difficult to tell a lot about shape and conformation from that photo, for me anyway. Pattern wise I have to say it does nothing for me personally. If I had to have a guess at what the future might hold, I would say its only going to get worse when the sumi comes out properly, no balance front to rear at all. The kohaku pattern underneath is very messy too as is the head, I'd discribe it as 'flowery' at best.

                    Obviously this is just my opinion and I am probably as far removed from an 'expert' as you will find on these things.

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                    • #11

                      I am worried about the sumi on the face. I have a feeling it would not come up much more than we we see currently.
                      Bancherd

                      Thai Koi-Keepers' Group

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                      • #12

                        Personally I wouldn't buy this showa. Don't like the body (small for a nissai, thin tail peduncle), the beni tinge and quality (commonly seen in Sakai's showa), nor the pattern. This is only my opinion and I hope I did not insult anyone.

                        On the subject of Sakai's showa, has anyone seen a really good showa from them? I must say I have yet to be impressed by them. But their kohaku and, lately sanke, are really yummy.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          I had hoped by now we would have heard maurice's opionion but before this thread slips away, I'd like to point out my style involving questions.



                          I don't like to use harsh comments and I like to involve others so many views will come to a consensus for those who like to learn and feel they have not yet gotten to a point where they (eventually) will contribute. it surprised me that no one followed up on my comment about the value of PH regarding this koi. had that question been forwarded you probably would had heard my concern about the depth of the beni. With High PH this koi would have gone
                          Bright red immediately and then you would have seen a disappearance of the hi plate.

                          many koi keepers that visit here don't have dream ponds. Nor can then afford to buy the top tategoi from genetically superior koi. For someone this showa would be a nice koi. The tail tube may suggest a smaller koi, but water quality and raising skill can keep this koi going at it's best for many years.

                          I think it's important for all of us to share the dreams of top hobbiests and to be able to learn what it takes to bring a top quality koi to size and condition.
                          whether or not we ever ascend to that position hopefully we will learn to take what we can get and develop it to it's maximum potential. For my money that's a real koi keeper.

                          before I went into my asagi craz, I spent many years with showa. What i loved about them was the chance to have the black finish out in such a way
                          as to prove a valuable gamble. If a breeder sells a tosai or nisai, he doesn't know 100% what will happen. My koi kichi bought the top one from a breeder a few years ago as nisai and raised it there two years. At the end of that time the breeder wouldn't even talk to my buddy about the koi which my friend demanded to have released immediately in the shinano river. ( it was pretty bad) In a proper pond it can very well take up to 8 years for it to develop. So with showa I suggest you find a kohaku pattern you like and good black on the head and shoulder area. then be prepared to wait. oh, by the way with the showa destined to the river. It got shipped home to the koi keepers pond where it looked terrible for two years and was called a showhaku by the owner. the black changed into round black spots and stayed that way for a year. then suddenly this ugly duckling began to emerge and change into the best looking showa I'd seen in a long time. End of story, ....
                          no it never finished but was eaten along with a omoyo hasgawa kohaku that took 3rd in the BKKS national by an otter. morale of the story. Buy the best showa you can afford, keep in well in quality ( and safe) surroundings and don't give up on it till it reaches 8! ( I still think I could keep the showa pictured well enough to hang on to what it has and develop into a pretty nice
                          competitive koi! )
                          Dick Benbow

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Originally posted by dick benbow
                            ....My koi kichi bought the top one from a breeder a few years ago as nisai and raised it there two years. At the end of that time the breeder wouldn't even talk to my buddy about the koi which my friend demanded to have released immediately in the shinano river. ( it was pretty bad)..............
                            oh, by the way with the showa destined to the river. It got shipped home to the koi keepers pond where it looked terrible for two years and was called a showhaku by the owner. the black changed into round black spots and stayed that way for a year. then suddenly this ugly duckling began to emerge and change into the best looking showa I'd seen in a long time. End of story, ....
                            no it never finished but was eaten along with a omoyo hasgawa kohaku that took 3rd in the BKKS national by an otter.
                            Only in koi hobby would such a fairy-tale saga end with the ugly duckling getting eaten by an otter.........yikes! Immediately this photo of demonic looking otter from most recent National Geographic came to my mind - except chomping on a high-dollar showa!

                            Main idea of post is a point well taken, Dick. Hobbyists are at all different levels, with different budgets and goals. Koi-keeping is a continual learning process and challenge for us all!
                            Attached Files

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                            • #15

                              Jen, I think you mental and physical picture got it right! there is a little demon in those eyes!
                              Dick Benbow

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