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What does a dead scale look like?

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  • What does a dead scale look like?

    I have a Showa that looked to have a bruise a couple months ago. Initially I was concerned that it was an early ulcer, but it never progressed or showed signs of an ulcer. The area now has some brown or blackish in that area of about three scales. The koi shows no signs of illness, btw, and it appears healthy and robust. But the discolored few scales give me some worry. I've never had a dead scale and would like to know what to look for. Thanks in advance
    Tim
  • #2

    I've had a black scale with my 81cm sanke, by the right side of its body. I didn't know how it happened, but I had it scraped (not removed) and then an antibiotic ointment was applied on it. That was August last year. By February, in time for the koi show, the black scale was still visible, and it seemed to not have progressed much. After the show, I had to quarantine it and it seemed the quarantine did the trick (I think). It must be the salt in the quarantine that enabled the scale to lighten up.

    Now I'm still observing and I reckon it will be a matter of slow time before I can tell if the scale can recover fully.

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    • #3

      I am not sure what you are describing. I cannot comment on 'dead scales'.

      I have a Kohaku that gets brown spots about the size of a penny that look something like an age spot on a person. They are most noticeable on the shiroji, but also appear on the beni. They can be a pale brown and darken over time, and they come and go like a shimi. When they fade away, you'd never know there had been any discoloration. ...The fish is also prone to shimmies that come and go.

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      • #4

        Originally posted by MikeM View Post
        I am not sure what you are describing. I cannot comment on 'dead scales'.

        I have a Kohaku that gets brown spots about the size of a penny that look something like an age spot on a person. They are most noticeable on the shiroji, but also appear on the beni. They can be a pale brown and darken over time, and they come and go like a shimi. When they fade away, you'd never know there had been any discoloration. ...The fish is also prone to shimmies that come and go.
        You must be patient Mike in seeing a koi thru a shimi appearing and disappearing. How long does it take for a shirmi to disappear? At what point do you give up and say it needs a surgical incision or the heck with it?

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        • #5

          Originally posted by MikeM View Post
          I am not sure what you are describing. I cannot comment on 'dead scales'.

          I have a Kohaku that gets brown spots about the size of a penny that look something like an age spot on a person. They are most noticeable on the shiroji, but also appear on the beni. They can be a pale brown and darken over time, and they come and go like a shimi. When they fade away, you'd never know there had been any discoloration. ...The fish is also prone to shimmies that come and go.
          I have not had the pleasure of a dead scale either, but have heard of such and the remedy is removal of the scale. I suppose the scale is not dead, but the skin tissue is infected or something of the sort.

          You describe what is a possiblity of what I have, however, what makes me think it is not is that there is a very small shimmiand it appears different. What I am seeing looks under the scale and showing through. I believe I will bowl this weekend and take a pic.
          Tim

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          • #6

            Update

            I've watched the black under the scale slowly fade away. Today it is 95% cleared up with nice shiroji below. There is a superficial small shimi that I will scrape off later. I believe the shimi and the black spot are unrelated. I believe the black spot was injury and necrosis of some sort and it simply took a while to heal.

            All good now.
            Tim

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            • #7

              Originally posted by Appliance Guy View Post
              I've watched the black under the scale slowly fade away. Today it is 95% cleared up with nice shiroji below. There is a superficial small shimi that I will scrape off later. I believe the shimi and the black spot are unrelated. I believe the black spot was injury and necrosis of some sort and it simply took a while to heal.

              All good now.
              Do scales die ?

              Or do the roots become affected/effected? die bonding the scale.

              I appreciate they do grow with the fish.

              Or is it both?

              Garfield

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              • #8

                Originally posted by MikeM View Post
                I am not sure what you are describing. I cannot comment on 'dead scales'.

                I have a Kohaku that gets brown spots about the size of a penny that look something like an age spot on a person. They are most noticeable on the shiroji, but also appear on the beni. They can be a pale brown and darken over time, and they come and go like a shimi. When they fade away, you'd never know there had been any discoloration. ...The fish is also prone to shimmies that come and go.
                I have 2 koi which has similar problems. Its like a hemorrage under the scale but one that does not causes problems like ulcers to the koi. Whenever I have the scale remove.and cleaned with PP paste, it cleans up but sooner or later another area shows up. I notice it occurs on koi with pink beni and bright white shiroji. I have not seen this effect on orange beni sensuke bloodline.

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                • #9

                  Originally posted by sacicu View Post
                  I have 2 koi which has similar problems. Its like a hemorrage under the scale but one that does not causes problems like ulcers to the koi. Whenever I have the scale remove.and cleaned with PP paste, it cleans up but sooner or later another area shows up. I notice it occurs on koi with pink beni and bright white shiroji. I have not seen this effect on orange beni sensuke bloodline.
                  Interesting. The Kohaku I mentioned was produced by Maruyama. The beni is not as true red as some out of the Kagura bloodline, but is somewhat redder than the orange-red of most of the larger growing Kohaku lines. Some say the Maruyama Kagura bloodline is more prone to shimmies than others. Perhaps mine inherited the tendency toward shimmies without the redder beni. She has a brown area currently that is nearly the size of a quarter. I have grown accustomed to her discolorations coming and going, and just enjoy her for her other attributes.

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                  • #10

                    Where are the pictures?

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      I'm a newbie and I don't know the jargon, so bear with me.
                      I have a pretty nice light blue koi with a series of very large scales down the dorsal line that are a dark blue. It's about 15-16 inches long. Not sure what it's called, but it looks cool. Anyhow, about three months ago, I noticed that fish (him? her? shrug) swimming a bit odd, and it had a hole through both color of scales right down to the muscle on the port side near the top of the fish. The whole was round, approx 3/4 inch in diameter. We have Great Blue Herons and I suspect that is the problem. Bastids. Anyhow, I have watched it closely, and it has slowly closed up the wound to the point where the light blue scales have all regrown and the fish is swimming normally. Now I'm waiting for the giant scales down the top of it to grow back in place- might be only one of those scales. No pictures, just my description and your imagination. Thanks for your patience.
                      Greed is a disease, raising Koi is the cure...

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                      • #12

                        If an injury does not destroy the 'root' of a scale, the scale will grow back. Sometimes the re-grown scale will appear completely normal as if nothing had happened. Often the re-grown scale will be imperfectly formed as to shape, alignment, size or coloration. For some folks this can ruin their enjoyment of a koi. For others it becomes an endearing feature that begins a story told to visitors.

                        Hope all goes well with your blue koi..... BTW, enjoy the light blue while it lasts. The crystal ball shows gray in the future.

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                        • #13

                          Originally posted by Appliance Guy View Post
                          Update

                          I've watched the black under the scale slowly fade away. Today it is 95% cleared up with nice shiroji below. There is a superficial small shimi that I will scrape off later. I believe the shimi and the black spot are unrelated. I believe the black spot was injury and necrosis of some sort and it simply took a while to heal.

                          All good now.
                          Well, I was wrong. The black surfaced again. No doubt it is sumi, as it has some really deep sumi in other areas that look similar.
                          Tim

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                          • #14

                            If it comes & goes every three years, who cares?

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