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A few small shiro utsuri; comments welcome

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  • A few small shiro utsuri; comments welcome

    I bought these two about 6 months back. One was pasty gray with no idea what was in store. The other one had thick, solid sumi almost from the very start but the head shape is of concern. Small fish don't take up much pond space and their fun to see develop.

    Mike Pfeffer
    Mike Pfeffer
    Northern Midwest ZNA show
    June 19 - 20, 2010
    Season's Garden Nursery
    Fishers, IN
  • #2

    They look like interesting fish how big are they now and how old? It will be interesting to see how they develop. The could have more black on there heads right? Time will tell. Are they out in the pond now? How cold is the water. Were thise pics just taken or are they taken when you first got them? Lots of questions. I have some orange and black ones from sakai.
    The perfect koi is always one purchase or spawning away!

    Comment

    • #3

      Shiro

      The breeder is Yasuaki Kaneko of Kaneko Yorijo in Nigorisawacho. He is well known for shiro utsuri. His shiro utsuri mature after 3 years. I am not worried about the amount of black on the head as these fish will change a lot before they get large. Actually, at eight inches and nissai, they are already begin the growth curve and won't be able to catch up but they are interesting to watch develop. I took these pictures 2 days ago. They are outside, water temperature is rock solid at 50 degrees F. In about two more weeks I will begin raising the temperature and start feeding again.

      Mike Pfeffer
      Mike Pfeffer
      Northern Midwest ZNA show
      June 19 - 20, 2010
      Season's Garden Nursery
      Fishers, IN

      Comment

      • #4

        so many changes to come for these two. They will be very interesting to see later on. How big do his koi get? What other types of koi does he breed? Does he keep his koi smaller (8" at nissai) on purpose? Bought through a dealer?

        Best regards,

        Bob Winkler
        Best regards,

        Bob Winkler

        My opinions are my best interpretation of my experiences. They are not set in stone as I intend to always be a student of life. And Koi.

        sigpic

        Comment

        • #5

          Size

          Hi Bob-

          Yes, these koi were bought through a dealer. Actually, I don't know how one would buy koi this small in any other way than through a dealer. On my two trips to Japan(one in April, one in October), all the small fish were heavily stocked in concrete greenhouses. They didn't appear to be available, probably because the breeder had not gone through them yet. I guess if one timed their trip late enough in the year they could acquire a tosai>nisai fish prior to it going out to the mud pond. I'm sure these two have grown up in overstocked conditions all their life and are just now getting some breathing room. I do think one can get some good growth in the second year if the fish gets the necessary conditions, even if he was a little stunted in the first year.

          Bob- What do you think about the head shapes of these two koi?

          Mike Pfeffer
          Mike Pfeffer
          Northern Midwest ZNA show
          June 19 - 20, 2010
          Season's Garden Nursery
          Fishers, IN

          Comment

          • #6

            Mike - both very nice looking young Utsuris. I think the one with the heavier sumi will grow the white as it matures and the other one will add sumi on the head and body. Will be fun watching them change. Thanks for sharing.

            Comment

            • #7

              Shiro's

              Hi Mike,

              You didn't actually pay money for these did you? hehehe Just kidding. Seriously I like them. You might remember that I have been searching for a nice Shiro or two. I really like the one with the heavier pattern and I hope it develops on the head. Does it like it will? I can see the sumi developing there. I would like the pectorals to be a little more balanced, it looks like the left one is nearly all black. But that will probably change as it grows also. Any ideas about their sex? Do you think the heavier sumi one is a male?

              BTW are you going to Chicago this weekend, hope so. See you there if you are.

              Take care,
              Kevin
              Kevin McGuire

              Comment

              • #8

                Shiro Utsuri development

                Hi Kevin-

                I won't be going to Chicago this weekend. It's a tough drive or flight for me to make for a koi meeting. This is the first forum where I've figured out how to post a picture so I'm having some fun. I bet you everyone's opinion of these two will change if I post their pictures at the end of the summer. In particular the one shiro has changed so much that I don't know how anyone could predict what it will look like. I don't know the sex of either of these fish as they are so small. I entered the one with the heavy sumi in the NMZNA show and the judge considered the shape of the head a demerit. I've seen head shapes change also so I've not given up on it. The sumi is as thick as I've ever seen on a shiro, particularly at this age which may point to a male but I just don't know. The other shiro has two points of sumi on it's nose which may indicate sumi coming on. Like the analogy with the weather, the same could be said about their patterns; if you do or don't like them now, just wait 3 months.

                Mike Pfeffer
                Mike Pfeffer
                Northern Midwest ZNA show
                June 19 - 20, 2010
                Season's Garden Nursery
                Fishers, IN

                Comment

                • #9

                  MikeP: I like them. ... What did the judge not like about the head shape?

                  Comment

                  • #10

                    Head shape

                    Third photo, shiro on the left. The koi has a short, wide head. I don't know if you'd call it a deformity or a demerit but the head shape queered it for the judge. I can always count on koi shows to raise the value in my eyes of some of my fish and to lower the value in others. But a caution to others, don't let a single koi show queer it for one of your koi. A different judge may see it a different way. I will give this shiro utsuri another shot this May in another koi show.

                    Mike Pfeffer
                    Mike Pfeffer
                    Northern Midwest ZNA show
                    June 19 - 20, 2010
                    Season's Garden Nursery
                    Fishers, IN

                    Comment

                    • #11

                      Anybody got comments on that head shape?

                      I'd have said the head shape indicates a good chance she (looks like "she" to me) would have that babydoll type face the Japanese seem to like so much ... the type where it sometimes looks like little chubby cheeks? Maybe the judge thought she was a little too round ... needs a course in the Japanese sense of beauty?

                      Comment

                      • #12

                        Not sure on the head shape but tend to agree with Mike M. Also a side note to Mike Pfeffer - I sent a private message to your inbox on another topic. Not sure if it (this forum) notifies you of it or not so thought I would mention it. Thanks.

                        Comment

                        • #13

                          Aloha Mike,
                          Good looking fish, and they seem to be developing nicely. I have a tosai from Kawakami that is just begining to show the sumi and I'm hopeful. But time will tell and that's the most fun, for me anyway, seeing the changes as they grow.
                          Dennis

                          Comment

                          • #14

                            Mike, don't be put off of small nisai shiro utsuri. Shiro are not the largest koi on the market and the one posted below has certainly done some catching up in size since it's been with me in the UK.
                            It was bought form the breeder (Seki) in Japan as nisai at just over 8", 2 years on it's 20" now and still going like a train.
                            I'll see if I get time to bowl and photograph this afternoon.
                            This was in January 2002 as purchased.

                            Maurice.
                            http://www.koi-uk.co.uk

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